Amylase free bread

[Mrsdornian]

I recently found out I can't tolerate Amylase which is in all flours sold at the grocery stores. I found Bob's red mill unbleached wheat flour mixed with barley flour and does not contain amylase. It's heavier flour and the first loaf was very doughy. The recipe calls for 3 1/4 cups of flour and to lighten it up I added 1/4 cup of potato starch but the loaf was very heavy. I have a new loaf on the go and I upped the potato starch to 1 cup. Will report how that comes out.

I use a bread machine and the recipe I use is:
1 1/4 cups of water
1 tbsp milk
2 tbsp oil/shortening
1 tbsp sugar
1 tsp salt
3 1/4 cups flour
3/4 tsp yeast

Question: Have any of you baked with barley/wheat flour mixtures? Was your loaves light and fluffy? Do you have any tips for me?

 

[Mrsdornian]

I recently found out I can't tolerate Amylase which is in all flours sold at the grocery stores. I found Bob's red mill unbleached wheat flour mixed with barley flour and does not contain amylase. It's heavier flour and the first loaf was very doughy. The recipe calls for 3 1/4 cups of flour and to lighten it up I added 1/4 cup of potato starch but the loaf was very heavy. I have a new loaf on the go and I upped the potato starch to 1 cup. Will report how that comes out.

I use a bread machine and the recipe I use is:
1 1/4 cups of water
1 tbsp milk
2 tbsp oil/shortening
1 tbsp sugar
1 tsp salt
3 1/4 cups flour
3/4 tsp yeast

Question: Have any of you baked with barley/wheat flour mixtures? Was your loaves light and fluffy? Do you have any tips for me?

The second loaf was much lighter but could have been a bit more lighter. Not sure adding more potato starch will do this. A bit more tweaking is needed. Still want to hear from others who have baked bread containing barley flour.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I recently found out I can't tolerate Amylase which is in all flours sold at the grocery stores. I found Bob's red mill unbleached wheat flour mixed with barley flour and does not contain amylase. It's heavier flour and the first loaf was very doughy. The recipe calls for 3 1/4 cups of flour and to lighten it up I added 1/4 cup of potato starch but the loaf was very heavy. I have a new loaf on the go and I upped the potato starch to 1 cup. Will report how that comes out.

I use a bread machine and the recipe I use is:
1 1/4 cups of water
1 tbsp milk
2 tbsp oil/shortening
1 tbsp sugar
1 tsp salt
3 1/4 cups flour
3/4 tsp yeast

Question: Have any of you baked with barley/wheat flour mixtures? Was your loaves light and fluffy? Do you have any tips for me?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but I think you misunderstand amylase.

It’s not added to flour it is a molecule that is naturally in flour.

It is an enzyme that breaks down starch in the plant so that the wheat kernel convert the sugar to food in order to germinate.

Diastase, amylase, and protease are all enzymes that are naturally occurring in wheat.

 

[Mrsdornian]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but I think you misunderstand amylase.

It’s not added to flour it is a molecule that is naturally in flour.

It is an enzyme that breaks down starch in the plant so that the wheat kernel convert the sugar to food in order to germinate.

Diastase, amylase, and protease are all enzymes that are naturally occurring in wheat.

The naturally occurring amylase is fine, it's the added stuff that's the problem. Anyway I like the flavor of the wheat/barley mixed flour better than the wheat only flour.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

The naturally occurring amylase is fine, it's the added stuff that's the problem. Anyway I like the flavor of the wheat/barley mixed flour better than the wheat only flour.

Have you tried natural fermentation (sourdough) instead of commercial yeast? And long fermentation? The use of commercial yeast is often the cause of many digestive issues with bread.

Commercial yeast simply creates gas in the dough. It doesn’t give the enzymes in dough time to break down. When you use a natural sourdough and ferment the dough overnight, the enzymes break down the gluten. It makes the bread far more digestible. Many people who cannot eat commercially produce bread, can eat bread made with natural sourdough starter.

 

[Mrsdornian]

I'll look into the sour dough. I have made it in the past but it takes so long so I never made it again. This new flour seems to be working for me, just a little more tweaking and I'll have it. I added an egg and tapioca flour but now I have to cut back the potato starch. Thanks.

 

[kevin_000]

The second loaf was much lighter but could have been a bit more lighter. Not sure adding more potato starch will do this. A bit more tweaking is needed. Still want to hear from others who have baked bread containing barley flour.

Hi
Amylase is found naturally in wheat in small quantities. We also produce it in our mouths and stomachs. Amylase converts starch to sugars. Put a small piece of bread in your mouth and wait, it starts to turn sweet. That's your mouths amylase working.

However some mills add a bio-engineered amylase it larger quantities to flour. Could this be what your body is reacting to? It makes the dough more extensible and gives the loaf a higher volume, faster. This amylase is extracted from fungi developed or the purpose. It is not the usual stuff. Quite a number of people do not tolerate it. There are quite a number of other enzymes added to flour sometimes and these are even more unpleasant. It is illegal to add things to flour in the UK and Europe, but they get around that by calling them processing aids which are permitted. Some of them are v e r y unpleasant.

Processing aids. #foodadditives | Real Bread Campaign

Definition, examples and general information about the often undeclared additives known as 'processing aids'

www.sustainweb.org

If I am trying a new flour I telephone the miller and ask. They always tell me if they have added enzymes. Most domestic flours do not have them, they are an extra cost and they are only really needed in commercial bakeries. BTW 'Bread mixes' are mostly stuffed with unpleasant things enzymes and worse.

Baking with Barley? I use barley at 20% of the total weight of flour. Much more than that makes for a poor (heavy) loaf. Barley has little gluten in it and so if you were to go for say 50% or above you should not kneed. Make a wet dough, say 75% hydration, or a little more. Mix the ingredients give it a quick kneed and let it rise in a tin before baking in a pre-heated oven. Potato, which works in the same way as Tangzhong, it lessens loaf volume (lightness) but increases the crumb softness and improves mouthfeel.

An aside: My brother likes barley bread, I do not. I sometimes remind him that a standard Roman Army punishment for smaller misdemeanours was to put the soldier on so many weeks Barley bread as oppose to the normal wheat ration. I think that says it all.

I hope something in this ramble might be of some value to you.

Happy baking.

 

[Mrsdornian]

Thanks for this. I don't know the ratio of barley to wheat flour in the mix. I haven't made any since this post but I plan on using milk instead of water in the next batch. I never used barley until now and I like the taste and smell of it. I'll post after my next batch and post the new recipe, hopefully.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi
Amylase is found naturally in wheat in small quantities. We also produce it in our mouths and stomachs. Amylase converts starch to sugars. Put a small piece of bread in your mouth and wait, it starts to turn sweet. That's your mouths amylase working.

However some mills add a bio-engineered amylase it larger quantities to flour. Could this be what your body is reacting to? It makes the dough more extensible and gives the loaf a higher volume, faster. This amylase is extracted from fungi developed or the purpose. It is not the usual stuff. Quite a number of people do not tolerate it. There are quite a number of other enzymes added to flour sometimes and these are even more unpleasant. It is illegal to add things to flour in the UK and Europe, but they get around that by calling them processing aids which are permitted. Some of them are v e r y unpleasant.

Processing aids. #foodadditives | Real Bread Campaign

Definition, examples and general information about the often undeclared additives known as 'processing aids'

www.sustainweb.org

If I am trying a new flour I telephone the miller and ask. They always tell me if they have added enzymes. Most domestic flours do not have them, they are an extra cost and they are only really needed in commercial bakeries. BTW 'Bread mixes' are mostly stuffed with unpleasant things enzymes and worse.

Baking with Barley? I use barley at 20% of the total weight of flour. Much more than that makes for a poor (heavy) loaf. Barley has little gluten in it and so if you were to go for say 50% or above you should not kneed. Make a wet dough, say 75% hydration, or a little more. Mix the ingredients give it a quick kneed and let it rise in a tin before baking in a pre-heated oven. Potato, which works in the same way as Tangzhong, it lessens loaf volume (lightness) but increases the crumb softness and improves mouthfeel.

An aside: My brother likes barley bread, I do not. I sometimes remind him that a standard Roman Army punishment for smaller misdemeanours was to put the soldier on so many weeks Barley bread as oppose to the normal wheat ration. I think that says it all.

I hope something in this ramble might be of some value to you.

Happy baking.

Barley is an flour additive—one of the most common flour conditioners added to just about every flour on the market. So when you add barley, you increase the ash content and enzyme activity in the dough.

It’s purpose in flour is to enhance browning bread and to improve the performance of the commercial yeast—which is to say improve the aesthetics of the bread by increasing the rise. So if the commercial yeast causes you gastrointestinal problems, you will just get more of it using barley and commercial yeast.

 

[kevin_000]

Barley is an flour additive—one of the most common flour conditioners added to just about every flour on the market. So when you add barley, you increase the ash content and enzyme activity in the dough.

It’s purpose in flour is to enhance browning bread and to improve the performance of the commercial yeast—which is to say improve the aesthetics of the bread by increasing the rise. So if the commercial yeast causes you gastrointestinal problems, you will just get more of it using barley and commercial yeast.

Hi Norcalbaker

Thanks for coming back. Your post has made me fact check and re-explore this area.

Of yeast multiplication and dough fermentation:

Hamelman J. - Bread. A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes. 2nd Edition - 2013


I am surprised at the idea of Barley being a flour additive. It is definitely not routinely added to Bread Flour in the UK or EU unless stated on the label. And, other than bread mixes for bread machines or specialist malted seed loaf flours I never see it here. Is that how it is seen where you come from? Here it is just another flour with particular characteristics and flavours.

Are you perhaps referring to diastatic malt, AKA Malted Barley Flour, which is used as a flour additive in the United States? And, of course that is mainly for the maltose and the amylase. Small amounts do increase loaf volume and confer a mild malt flavour. One German Diastatic Malt manufacturer, who produces it for the baking industry, recommends no more than 0.5% - 1%. (Bakers).

Diastatic malt, or malted Barley is wholly different from Barley flour.

Amylase has more of an advantage for bread made with modern dough processing machinery. For free form loaves it can be an issue for the inexperienced home baker as the dough is more likely to spread out because of the weakened gluten. I never use it as I find correct manipulation of the dough, along with time, hydration and temperature gives me everything I need to produce good loaves. The baking industry, of course, wants to add the word, "speed". Speed is the enemy of flavour development.

This article is quite good on the subject.

Optimization of additive content and their combination to improve the quality of pure barley bread

The objective of this study was to model the influence of pregelatinized OSA starch (OSA), wheat gluten (Gl) and xylanase (Xyl) on breadmaking potential of barley flour by using response surface methodology. Addition of these ingredients had significant ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Historically in Europe Barley and Rye were grown in those areas less suitable for growing wheat as they will tolerate more cold and wet and poorer soil. Thus in Scotland the Barley Bannock was common outside the cities. It's worth making them once just to realise why they were so quickly abandoned when wheat became more readily available. Sorry to be so negative about Barley, though I do see it as having a role in Gluten Free / Low Glutamate breads the soft woolly crumb texture and flavour are not something I seek. Though others, like my brother, just can't get enough.

 

[Mrsdornian]

Success! Here is my recipe for dough for buns, bread and cinnamon rolls.
3 2/3 cup unbleached wheat barley flour (I use Bob's red mill brand)
1/3 cup tapioca starch
1/3 cup potato starch
1 2/3 cup one egg and milk (I used 2%)
2 tbs oil
2 tbs sugar
1/2 tsp salt
1 3/4 tsp yeast
I use a bread machine to mix and rise my dough since I have bad luck mixing dough by hand.
When the dough is ready I formed my buns and set them in the oven with the light on for about 45 minutes I turned the oven on 375 F without removing them from the oven and baked 40-45 minutes.

 

[kevin_000]

Thanks for this. I don't know the ratio of barley to wheat flour in the mix. I haven't made any since this post but I plan on using milk instead of water in the next batch. I never used barley until now and I like the taste and smell of it. I'll post after my next batch and post the new recipe, hopefully.

Hi
No problem. I hope it was not TMI.

Milk will give you a softer crumb, but balrley has a soft crumb anyway. It's worth trying, but it will cost your loaf some volume (lightness).

You might find it an advantage to switch to a 'starter' using wild yeasts. Others say, and I agree, they produce a much more digestible loaf.

I don't know if I am permitted to post a recipe here. (Sorry they are in metric)

You can leave the barley grains out if that's too much faff. The other ingredient amounts are kept the same if you do that.

Good luck.

Wishing you success.

This can be done in a Bread Maker on the Rye setting or, not so good, the quick white bread setting.

From my notebook - It's based on Dan Lepard's recipe with changes to Scandanavian technique - This is a Traditional Scandanavian recipe. It makes a superb flavoursome loaf.

Barley flour, when mixed with water, does not contain the glutinous, elastic protein that will stretch and hold gas inside the loaf. So although it was one of the earliest grains western man relied upon for sustenance, it was quickly left behind when we turned to leavened breads. This recipe uses the traditional flavour of barley in a modern and light-textured loaf.

TIP This recipe attempts to overcome the lack of gluten in barley by using a gelatinised barley flour for flavouring while relying on white flour to keep the loaf light. Cooked whole barley grains are then added to the mixing liquid, held suspended by the gluten in the dough. You could soak these grains in wine, ale or sour milk to add flavour, but remember to drain them well.



The White leaven can be made from 100g water, 100g strong bread flour and 1/8th tsp of instant yeast mixed and left on the kitchen side overnight.

• 100g barley flour (29%)
• 190g water at 20°C (52%)
• 200g white leaven (57%)
• 50g honey (14%)
• 1 tsp Instant yeast (1.5%)
• 240g cooked barley grains, rinsed until cold (69%)
• 240g strong white flour (71%)
• 1 tsp fine sea salt (2%)

Put the Barley flour in a pan and pour very hot water (190g) over it whilst whisking - Set aside to cool to room temp. Water at about 180 F would be about right.

In a large mixing bowl, stir together the barley flour water mix, the leaven, honey, and yeast.

When evenly combined, add the barley grains and stir again. Finally, add the white flour and salt, and stir until you have a thick, sticky dough. Tip the dough on to a lightly oiled (with corn or olive oil or Rapeseed) work-surface and knead for 10 seconds. Return to the bowl, cover with a tea-towel, and leave for 10 minutes.

Remove from the bowl, knead for 10 seconds, then return to the bowl and leave for 10 minutes. Give the dough a final knead and leave covered in the bowl for 1 hour.

Dust the work-surface with flour. Gently knead the dough for 10 seconds and into a ball. Cover and leave for 10 minutes, to give the dough time to relax. Rub a clean tea-towel with flour, so the dough doesn’t stick to it, and lay across a large tray (or use long floured baskets).

Shaping - Easier to watch a YouTube on how to shape for a bread tin then use a bread tin. This is for a batard.
Sit one ball of dough seam-side-upwards on the floured work-surface. To shape the dough, pat it flat with your hands, then take the left and right sides furthest from you and fold them inwards towards the centre by 2cm, making a triangular point. Next, take that same point and fold it inwards to the centre, pressing it firmly down to seal. Rotate the dough 180°, and repeat with the other side. Rotate the dough once more, so that you are back in the starting position.

If you are right-handed, fold the dough in half towards you starting at the right-hand end, sealing the dough with the heel of your right hand while holding and folding the dough with your left. Roll the shaped loaf (with both hands tucked around it) on the work-surface, pressing down slightly more with the heel of each hand to give the ends a gentle point. Lift the dough and place it seam-side-upwards on the cloth. Finally, fold and pull the cloth up the sides of the loaf (or if using a flour-dusted basket, simply place the dough inside it seam-side upwards).

Cover and leave in a warm (21°C ) place for 1 1/2 hours. Preheat the oven to 220°C/425°F/gas mark 7. Turn the dough seam-side-down on to a flour-dusted baking tray, then apply a fine spray of water. Bake in the centre of the oven for 50 minutes, or until the loaf is a light brown in colour and light in weight. Cool, then wrap in waxed paper.

Or use a Bread machine set to Rye bread, or quick white bread.


This is a Danish recipe. In Sweden and Norway this loaf would not be eaten for a few days. They tie the paper up with string and let it ripen (develop flavour) first.

Additional Note - Use strong bread flour - All purpose flour does not develop sufficient gluten strength.

 

[kevin_000]

Success! Here is my recipe for dough for buns, bread and cinnamon rolls.
3 2/3 cup unbleached wheat barley flour (I use Bob's red mill brand)
1/3 cup tapioca starch
1/3 cup potato starch
1 2/3 cup one egg and milk (I used 2%)
2 tbs oil
2 tbs sugar
1/2 tsp salt
1 3/4 tsp yeast
I use a bread machine to mix and rise my dough since I have bad luck mixing dough by hand.
When the dough is ready I formed my buns and set them in the oven with the light on for about 45 minutes I turned the oven on 375 F without removing them from the oven and baked 40-45 minutes.

Nice one - Bravo on your determination.


I posted a recipe before I saw this. Are you gluten intolerant?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Nice one - Bravo on your determination.


I posted a recipe before I saw this. Are you gluten intolerant?

it’s not that I’m determined it’s there’s been a lot of medical studies on the yeast and its affect on gastrointestinal effects. It’s not a mine thing as people think it is.

I have celiac‘s disease, not gluten intolerant.

And what you say about the addition of amylase to flour is incorrect. It’s actually added to the bread.

And amylase in flour amylase. If you can’t tolerate it you can’t tolerate it flour, you can’t tolerate. It’s ridiculous to say you can eat when it’s naturally occurring in the flour, but if you add it‘s additive.

three doctors, two nurses, a nutritionist with a masters degree in my family. And I started down the path of medical myself so I’ve taken far more of my share of biology, chemistry and human anatomy and chemistry than the average person.

 

[kevin_000]

Hi
That post was not to you.

I have not challenged your clinical advice, or coeliac experience. I've not even alluded to it.

Amylase is added by the miller's here in the EU, when added. The FDA in the States does not require enzymes to be listed on the ingredients on the packaging. So it might well be added to some flours on the domestic market.

I've not made any comments about yeast. Excepting my post till under moderation, which is again not to you, but which states the same opinion as yours.

As for training. Great your embarking on a clinical training. I wish you the best with it. However, evidenced facts are everything. I shall spare you my long list of qualifications, they are imaterial, accurate facts are not.

Sorry you feel personally impugned that was ot my intention.


Be well.

 

[Mrsdornian]

Nice one - Bravo on your determination.


I posted a recipe before I saw this. Are you gluten intolerant?

Not gluten intolerant. I did a food intolerance test. I thought about getting some gluten to add but haven't yet. Will have to research to see how much to add.

 

[kevin_000]

Not gluten intolerant. I did a food intolerance test. I thought about getting some gluten to add but haven't yet. Will have to research to see how much to add.

Great - Wishing you well with your bread journey.

I put a recipe up for you the other day. You might want to try it. It's still awaiting moderation.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi
That post was not to you.

I have not challenged your clinical advice, or coeliac experience. I've not even alluded to it.

Amylase is added by the miller's here in the EU, when added. The FDA in the States does not require enzymes to be listed on the ingredients on the packaging. So it might well be added to some flours on the domestic market.

I've not made any comments about yeast. Excepting my post till under moderation, which is again not to you, but which states the same opinion as yours.

As for training. Great your embarking on a clinical training. I wish you the best with it. However, evidenced facts are everything. I shall spare you my long list of qualifications, they are imaterial, accurate facts are not.

Sorry you feel personally impugned that was ot my intention.


Be well.

My apologies I was going through my emails and saw the notifications a response to my comment.

My apologies I thought that was a response to my last comment

Here’s what I was getting at...

1. Flour mills do not secretly fill flour sacks with amylase. The FDA restricts the amount that is allowed in flour.
2. The amylase that is added is in fact made from barley. It is malted barley.
3. The FDA restricts the amount of malt barley to 0.75% the weight of the flour. Flour is clearly labeled with malt barley.
4. Barley is NOT an alternate to amylase since barley is in fact so high in amylase that it used both in the bakery and beer industries specifically for amylase—directly in flour and in beer brewing.
5. Amylase is naturally occurring in wheat flour as well.

When bread is made commercially, enzymes can be added and they do not need to be listed on the food label. And those enzymes are also regulated by the FDA. In fact all additives are regulated by the FDA. Just because something doesn’t appear on the label does it mean it’s not regulated.


Food allergies are immune mediate disorders. That means it’s a disease of which the exact cause cannot be definitively explained, but ingestion of even minute amounts of the food connected to common inflammatory pathways that leads to inflammation. And in some individuals that inflammation can be so fast and severe it kills.

Our immune system is in fact very sensitive to even the tiniest molecules. Females have a more robust immune system than males due to different hormone levels. There are in fact differences in how individuals respond two allergies based on sex. And the distribution of allergies varies between sexes sexes based on our immune system.

Food intolerance is a gray area. Many in the medical community doubt it exists since disease has an etiology. Lactose intolerance is an example; the cause is deficiency in production of an enzyme lactase.
There are not tests for food intolerances.

 

[kevin_000]

Thank you. The apology it is gratefully accepted. Though it was a small error.

Your final comment on enzymes is precisely the same position as my own. The solution is effectively, 'speak to the Miller.' Though TBH I don't want to get caught up in further discussion on this. I live accross the pond and it would not be appropriate. It's an American issue.

You clearly read deeply, as do I. I respect that.

As I said before I don't write about, or get involved in discussions about coeliac disease, or gluten intollerance. I have no first hand experience of either and that is a deficit worth quite a lot of unread books. Though I do have concerns about the health implications of modern agricultural practice, modern varieties of grain and what is or is not done to our flour. I address these by milling my own flour (when I can) from organic land races of older varieties mostly) and then by doing long ferments based on a wild yeast leaven. Did I mention I don't write about glutenin and the large gut fauna and flora too? (British humour).

Again, I am sorry that you are having to navigate through your illness.

Be well.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you. The apology it is gratefully accepted. Though it was a small error.

Your final comment on enzymes is precisely the same position as my own. Though TBH I don't want to get caught up in that. I live accross the pond and it would not be appropriate. It's an American issue.

You clearly read deeply, as do I. I respect that.

As I said before I don't write about, or get involved in discussions about coeliac disease, or gluten intollerance. I have no first hand experience of either and that is a deficit worth quite a lot of unread books. Though I do have concerns about the health implications which I address by milling my own flour from organic land races of older varieties and then do long ferments based on a wild yeast leaven.

Again, I am sorry that you are having to navigate through your illness.

Be well.

I don’t like the lack of transparency by any means. I feel The consumer has a right to know what is in their food. But I feel there’s a lot of misunderstanding and disinformation on both sides. On the one hand the consumer doesn’t understand the science behind food production. For instance, they don’t understand that amylase in bread and beer making is sprouted barley.

On the other hand the food industry goes to great lengths to keep the consumer in the dark about what they are doing. And that creates so much distrust. And there are a lot of ingredients that they do use that I think are completely unnecessary. As consumers we should have the choice to decide what we want to consume. The lack of transparency is what is so so frustrating.

The watch dogs also are guilty of fear mongering. And that is the other frustrating thing for me. It’s important that the public has fact based information so that we can make educated decisions about our food choices. But we can’t make educated decisions if those decisions are based on fear.

When we have facts, were able to work with the food industry to change not only what is produced, but how it is produced, and how we deliver it to market. And all of these things are vitally important not just to how we eat but how we farm and how the farmer lives. And how the environment is sustained for the future.


Be well...