Attaching old sugarpaste to the side of a cake

Discussion in 'Decorating' started by Lw90, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    Good evening, I'd be grateful for some advice regarding attaching sugarpaste to a cake.
    I am attempting to make fairly flat buildings from New York and the skyline using sugarpaste. I want to eventually stick them on to the side of a cake. As I am a beginner making these buildings will take me a good few days perhaps even a week as there will be so much detail. I know sugarpaste goes dry and hard and then water and edible glue I've tried doesn't stick it anything.
    So I was just wondered is it possible make sugarpaste items and leave them for a while (days or weeks) before attaching to a cake ? If so What would be best to attach the buildings with? And how old can sugarpaste last before it so too old that no amount glue would stick it?
    Many thanks for your time
    Lel
     
    Lw90, Mar 7, 2018
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  2. Lw90

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    What is the cake covered in? Swiss meringue buttercream? Italian meringue buttercream? American shortening icing? Fondant? Sugar paste decorations should be dry. You should not apply them wet. Moisture will just cause the sugar paste to disintegrate. So you have to let your decorations dry thoroughly before you apply them.

    But how you apply them depends on what your cake is covered in.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Mar 8, 2018
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  3. Lw90

    Becky Administrator

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    Welcome to the forum, @Lw90 :) As @Norcalbaker59 rightly says above, you need to have something between the sugar paste and the cake. This not only helps stick the fondant to the cake, but it helps create a smoother base to work with.

    Can you tell us a bit more about the cake you're planning - what shape is it? Are you making a cake that looks like a building, or just having a city skyline as a decoration? If you've got any photos of what you've got in mind that would be useful too.
     
    Becky, Mar 8, 2018
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  4. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    Hi Norcalbaker59 and Becky

    Thank you so much for your replies!

    I am planning to make a square cake with royal icing covering it, with the New York skyline and buildings as decorations on the top and sides of the cake. I have made a 3D flat iron building (I have attached a photo of it IMG_8218, it's not great but i'm making a few different buildings so they will be hidden in between each other) and as I am not very good with piping icing I attached every dot for the windows using sugarpaste and water, which took me quite a while haha). I have put a little stick in that to pop on top of the cake. But knowing how long it took me to make the 3D building I’d imagine it will take me a while to make the several flat ones to go all the way along the side of the cake. I was worried if they were a week or so old if they would be too dry that water wouldn’t be strong enough to attach to the royal icing? I have seen some amazing ones online which I have attached a photo of, it is the look i am trying to do.

    Thank you very much

    Kind regards Lel
     

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    Lw90, Mar 8, 2018
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  5. Lw90

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad you clarified as working with 2-D and 3-D are not the same.

    Large 3-D sculpture cannot be glued to the side of a cake. It doesn’t matter what the cake is covered in. 3-D sculptures like these have to be attached with wires or dowels.

    3-D large pieces need it to be as light as possible. Is your piece made from a solid piece of fondant?

    If it is a solid piece of fondant, its not going to work well as the bulk and weight make it impossible to position and stay in place.

    I would recommend you create a form of the building using rice crispy treats. Then wrap the form in fondant.

    RIce crispy forms are pretty standard for large 3-D pieces as it reduces weight. Also, a solid piece of fondant takes forever to dry.

    Rice crispy treats for sculpting is made a little bit differently than rice crispy treats for eating. The link below demonstrates how to make it. It also explains the basics in working with it.

    https://sugargeekshow.com/recipe/rice-krispy-treats-recipe/


    The form can be covered in fondant or modeling chocolate. It’s a personal preference. If you use fondant you need to apply to layers.

    This video demonstrates how to cover in fondant.




    I don’t use modeling chocolate so I can’t advise you on how to use it for sculpting.

    Large heavy 3-D sculptures like this cannot be easily attached to the side of a cake. You have the added challenge of a hard royal icing.

    With large 3-D pieces, you will need to build the rice crispy treat around a wire support. The wire is used to support the sculpture and give you something to insert into the cake for positioning.

    The video link below explains how to create a wire form. While this is for a fondant cake topper the process is essentially the same. You would just simply use rice crispy treats.

    NOTE: You should never stick plain wire into a cake. Use covered wire AND insert covered wire into a plastic straw. Trim wire so it does not stick out beyond the straw. Then insert in cake. I purchase small cocktail straws from the party supply store for this purpose.

    In creating a sculpture around a wire form, orient the wire form in the direction you want to attach the sculpture to the cake. In other words, if the building is going to be attached to the cake from the back of the building, you would build the wire form and the rice crispy sculpture with the wire supports coming out of the back, rather than the side or bottom of he building.




    Attaching such sculptures to royal icing is problematic. Royal icing dries hard. Royal icing is normally applied in two coats with a long drying period between coats. So inserting wire supports into the dried royal icing could cause cracking.

    You could try inserting tiny cocktail straws into the cake where you want to attach the sculptures. Ice around the straws. Let the royal icing set up slightly then remove the straws. Before applying a second coating of royal icing insert fresh straws into the holes. Then remove them before the icing completely sets up. Then when you’re ready to attach the sculptures slide the straw covered wires in the preformed holes.

    Water will never work to attach a sculpture of this size and weight to a cake. Your best bet would be to use edible glue. Edible glue is made with tylose powder. Also called CMC powder. It’s sold in most specialty cake stores as well as online.


    Edible Glue

    MAKE 24 hrs. BEFORE NEEDED!


    1 cup boiling hot water

    3/4 tsp tylose powder (CMC)


    Boil water

    Remove from heat

    Stir in tylose powder until powder is thoroughly mixed in

    Let cool and stir every 5 minutes until the tylose is completely dissolved, about 15-20 minutes.

    Transfer to airtight bottle

    Refrigerate overnight to allow the mixture to thicken and tylose to completely dissolve.


    Write date on container. Tylose edible glue keeps up to 60 days refrigerated in an airtight container.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Mar 9, 2018
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  6. Lw90

    Becky Administrator

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    Thanks for the clarification, I love the look of the design you're basing your cake on! Just so I understand, you want to have a city skyline but using 3D buildings instead of 2D? Just bear in mind that you're creating a lot of work for yourself, and non of the decorations will be edible. Personally I think the 2D buildings would be far more effective, and should be a lot easier and quicker to make.

    Judging by the photo, it looks like they covered the cake in fondant and made the decor out of fondant too - because it was rolled thin it wouldn't take too long to dry, and they will be light enough to stick to the outside of the cake (the thinness would also make them quite fragile, so be careful). You could decorate the buildings using a stencil for the windows which would make life easier.

    If you have your heart set on 3D buildings then I agree that rice crispy centers are the way to go.
     
    Becky, Mar 9, 2018
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  7. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    Thank you for taking so much time and effort finding me videos and all the information, you both are so helpful. thank you very much!!!

    sorry i'm being quite confusing.
    I have made 3D buildings for the top of the cake that i will put into the cake with sticks.
    I want to make 2D ones to put all around the like the photo i found online of a cake someone has made fantastically.
    So i think i'll need to make around 10-15 2D buildings to put all around the cake so i worried by the time i had made all these buildings they would be too dry to add to the royal icing on the cake to stick. I was just wondering if there something i could use to help stick the 2D buildings to the cake as they would be very dry by the time of applying to the cake.

    I've not heard of the rice crispy centres it sounds a fantastic idea, i will use that on my next project!!
    Thank you very much
    Great idea with the stencils too it would save me a lot of time trying to add tiny little bits of sugarpaste :)

    kind regards
     
    Lw90, Mar 11, 2018
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  8. Lw90

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    Ok understand now

    A 3-D cake topper still needs wood or wire supports to insert into the cake to ensure it stays upright and in place.

    For smaller 3-D pieces, you can embed flat toothpicks or wood barbecue skewers into the topper while forming it.

    But for a large tall piece like your building, it really is best to make a rice crispy treat form and use a wire frame for supports.

    I don’t mean to be discouraging here, but I don’t think you’re going to successfully attach that building to royal icing. It too tall and heavy to secure without wires.


    I wouldn’t worry about the 2-D pieces drying out. The 2-D pieces will in fact have to be dried thoroughly before you attach to the cake since they extend above the top of the cake. If you tried to attach them freshly made, the unsupported tops will simply collapse.

    After the pieces thoroughly dry, attach the 2-D pieces, with left over royal icing. Royal icing sticks like glue to itself.


    Link below demonstrates the proper way to apply royal icing to a cake to get rid of air bubbles. In a culinary cake class, I was taught to use the paddle method and straight edge demonstrated here for buttercream applications as well.




    How to make and store royal icing


     
    Norcalbaker59, Mar 11, 2018
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  9. Lw90

    Becky Administrator

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    I agree that if you're planning on icing the cake with royal icing, then use more royal icing to stick the 2D fondant buildings once they're dry.

    This sounds like a great project! I'd love to see photos once it's done :)
     
    Becky, Mar 12, 2018
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  10. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    Great thank you so much for all your help and advice!!
    I will give it a go and i'll post some photo's in a few weeks time once i've made the cake

    Thank you!
    Happy baking
    take care
     
    Lw90, Mar 15, 2018
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  11. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    Hey guys,

    I just thought i'd attach a photo of the new york themed cake i made. Thank you for your help it worked a treat and the 2D buildings stuck brilliantly thank you again
    kind regards
     

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    Lw90, Apr 2, 2018
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  12. Lw90

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    Wow! That’s an amazing skyline! I love the foreshortened streetscape. Very nice touch. :cool:
     
    Norcalbaker59, Apr 3, 2018
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  13. Lw90

    Becky Administrator

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    That looks incredible! I love your use of perspective, it's fantastic. Awesome work! :D How long did it take?
     
    Becky, Apr 3, 2018
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  14. Lw90

    Lw90 Member

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    ahh Thank u very much!!! :). It's so nice to have lovely feedback from you guys, it means a lot!!
    The 3D pieces on top took me a couple of weeks In total. The 2D pieces I drew as stencils first, so it was easier to make them.they took around a week to make them all.(I made them all around the sides of the cake too so not quite as long as I worried it would)
    Thank you again kind regards
     
    Lw90, Apr 6, 2018
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