How do I get nice large (Swiss cheese look) crumb. I'm at 6000' altitude and have tried everything I can think of. I have over kneaded,, under kneaded, increased hydration, decreased hydration, tried multiple risings but get a very nice even crumb each time. I even got desperate and tossed in some baking powder. help, please
Bread crumb problem
- Thread starter jimdd
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Would you elaborate on what kind of bread you're making...yeast or sourdough starter, and the kind of flour you are using. Are you hand kneading or machine kneading? How do you proceed for your multiple risings?
Étienne
I'm trying to make an artisan loaf of a great many different shapes. Yeast and or sourdough, Bread flour, I have tried three brands with the same result. I have tried machine kneading but prefer to hand knead. First rising until approx doubled, loaves formed then again proofed. I have tried a third rising with the same results, I have tried folding the dough during the second rising several times with lousy results. I have also noticed a lack of oven rise. I have had this problem over quite a few years at this 6000' altitude as well as at sea level.
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Maurizio Leo has been blogging about sourdough bread for years. He lives at 5000 ft so has to make adjustments for his baking. A post he wrote on high altitude bread baking is linked below.
How to Bake Sourdough Bread at High Altitude | The Perfect Loaf
In this guide, I'll show you my tips and tricks to bake sourdough bread at high altitude so you get a crunchy, crispy crust and a fully baked loaf.
www.theperfectloaf.com
High altitude cooking presents challenges we, at lower elevations never experience. Interesting though, you report having a similar result at high altitude as at sea level, wondering if an ingredient or method you use or do in both situations might adversely affect the outcome.
Have you considered working to perfect a yeast dough to determine what method works best in your local environment before making a sourdough that introduces yet another variable. Once you find the formula that works, then apply the same principles to your sourdough prep.
Perhaps follow the documented high elevation adjustments offered by one of the many online authorities such as the King Arthur High Altitude Baking Resource. I like that article because it contains references to two further academic articles on the subject.
You may be doing this as well, but I like to buy my active dry yeast in those one pound packages sold at Sam's / Costco which is always fresh and vacuum sealed. Once opened, I store the yeast in a jar in the freezer. I've followed this practice for years, and once frozen, the yeast remains active even beyond it's listed best by date.
Just curious about what are the three brands of flour you've tried with similar unsatisfactory results.
Have you considered working to perfect a yeast dough to determine what method works best in your local environment before making a sourdough that introduces yet another variable. Once you find the formula that works, then apply the same principles to your sourdough prep.
Perhaps follow the documented high elevation adjustments offered by one of the many online authorities such as the King Arthur High Altitude Baking Resource. I like that article because it contains references to two further academic articles on the subject.
You may be doing this as well, but I like to buy my active dry yeast in those one pound packages sold at Sam's / Costco which is always fresh and vacuum sealed. Once opened, I store the yeast in a jar in the freezer. I've followed this practice for years, and once frozen, the yeast remains active even beyond it's listed best by date.
Just curious about what are the three brands of flour you've tried with similar unsatisfactory results.
retired baker
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6000 feet is over a mile, I've never baked that high up.
I wonder what they do in Denver.
Reduce yeast, increase water.
Etienne - I used Gold Medal Brand bread flour, Pillsbury and some generic bread flour from WalMart. I have a bagel shop here in town that will sell a 50# sack of bread flour but I'm hesitant to try it as 50 pounds would be a bit stale before it was used up. For yeast, I use 1# blocks of vacuum packed Red Star, and any left over is frozen except for a small amount which I refrigerate. I use yeast for almost 90% of my baking and sourdough mostly for rye and whole wheat breads.
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If you’re using Gold Medal or Pillsbury all-purpose flour, you’ll struggle to make decent bread. Both have a protein content of around 10.5%, which is too low to build the strong gluten structure bread requires. On top of that, they’re bleached—further weakening gluten development and making them even less suitable for yeast-leavened doughs.
These flours are better suited for pie crusts, quick breads, certain cookies, and some cakes where a tender texture is preferred.
If you want to use all-purpose flour for bread, choose an unbleached flour with at least 11.5% protein. King Arthur’s unbleached all-purpose flour, at 11.7% protein, is a good option. For even stronger gluten development, King Arthur also offers a bread flour with 12.7% protein.
I would tend to agree as off the grocery store shelf bread flours are targeting less advanced preparations including bread machine usage and the protein content and other formulation does not usually produce the result you're looking for.
King Arthur flour is well renowned for its quality for advanced home baking; and if you have someone willing to share some commercial bread flour with you, consider taking advantage of the offer.
Other sources of good quality bread flour could be sometimes in the warehouse stores, although not reliably consistent supply. If you happen to be near one of the few Costco Business Centers, you would be able to get commercial bread flour there. I've occasionally seen King Arthur flour sold in WalMart, but to be sure of getting it fresh, order from King Arthur directly.
To address your problem of developing an open crumb, I would start with a bread flour know to have a protein content of 12.3 – 13.8%, and follow the recommendations in the King Arthur article referred to earlier.
Consider calling the King Arthur help line for additional input, as they have access to some knowledgeable resources.
Will look forward to hearing of your progress, as high elevation baking is an interesting topic!