Bready eclairs

[Dm baking]

I'm trying to figure out why I keep getting bready eclairs. These are eclairs that puff up but when cut open have webbed walls which makes filling very difficult.

The panade formed a V when after mixing in the eggs, not runny and not too stiff. I let the dough rest for an hour before piping.

I baked at 375 for 35 minutes in a closed oven. I did not open the door. I also misted the top with cooking oil and powdered sugar.

Any ideas?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Post your formula including type of flour (protein content), butterfat, type of dairy. As well as instructions and equipment you are using. It’s impossible to help you troubleshoot if we don’t know what you are working with.

 

[Dm baking]

I'm trying to figure out why I keep getting bready eclairs. These are eclairs that puff up but when cut open have webbed walls which makes filling very difficult.

The panade formed a V when after mixing in the eggs, not runny and not too stiff. I let the dough rest for an hour before piping.

I baked at 375 for 35 minutes in a closed oven. I did not open the door. I also misted the top with cooking oil and powdered sugar.

Any ideas?

Here are more details on my recipe and process. My recipe is:

45g strong white bread flour (I used King Arthur flour which has a protein content of 12.7%)
45g plain flour (I used King Arthur AP flour with a protein content of 11.7%)
5g sugar
65ml whole milk
65 ml water
55g unsalted butter (This is American styled butter which I believe has a fat content of 80%)
¼ tsp salt
2 large eggs

I melted the butter in the whole milk, water, sugar and salt over in a pan on low heat then brought it up to a boil and turned off the heat.

I then added the sifted flours and stirred until incorporated and then continued stirring over low heat for several minutes until the choux reached a temperature of 170F. This took about five minutes. Could the additional mixing have caused excessive gluten development leading to the webs?

I moved the mix to a stand mixer, let it cool to around 100F and mixed in the eggs until fully incorporated.

The panade formed a V when after mixing in the eggs, not runny and not too stiff. I moved the panade to a piping bag with a star shaped tip for eclairs and let it rest for an an hour on the counter before piping.

After piping I misted the top with cooking oil and sprinkled with powdered sugar.

I baked at 375 for 35 minutes in a closed oven.

I tried a second batch which I baked at 400 F for 30 minutes. These were browner but puffed to the same size and still had the interior webs.

 

[Dm baking]

Post your formula including type of flour (protein content), butterfat, type of dairy. As well as instructions and equipment you are using. It’s impossible to help you troubleshoot if we don’t know what you are working with.

I couldn't edit my original post so I replied to it with additional details. Thank you in advance!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

90 g flour total so the percentages are:



Flour 100%

Sugar 5.5%

Milk 72.2%

Water 72.2%

Butter 61.1%

Salt 1.66%

Egg ? Since you don’t weigh your eggs



I think problems are related to ingredient choice and the formula.

1. King Arthur flour is unbleached and hard red winter wheat. It is suited for bread, rolls, some quick breads, drop cookies, biscotti, and other durable baked goods. King Arthur flour is not appropriate for fine pastry.
2. The thinking behind bread flour is the high protein content creates a stronger gluten network; a stronger network may then prevent blowouts. But bread flour is not a good choice because it creates a bready texture and a much tougher product with a really long bite.
3. Pate a choux is best with a lower protein flour of about 10% - 11%.
4. Water quality is important. Hard water (more than 200 ppm of calcium and magnesium mineral deposits) will trigger stronger tighter gluten bonds. If you have hard water, then use lower protein flour and bottled still mineral water. Some calcium and magnesium is needed in doughs, especially yeast doughs, but too much/little adversely effects it.
5. Total liquid at 144% is really low especially with unbleached King Arthur flours and bread flour to boot. Total hydration should be around 175% – 185%.
6. Eggs: it’s impossible to know the percentage of egg In the formula since you don’t weigh the eggs. If we give a large egg a value of 50g, two eggs would then have a value of 100 g. 100÷90 = 1.11. Egg at 111% is very low, especially if you’re using high protein unbleached flour. The egg percentage should be 145% to 170% depending on the flour and hydration in the formula. I would suggest you start with AP flour (not King Arthur); 100%; eggs 150%
7. Butter at 61% is just below the standard of 65%. Given that butter is a source of water and fat, I would suggest you increase it.
8. Salt and sugar are in the range for a choux.
9. Cooking the panade to 165°F - 175°F (74 to 79°C) is good.
10. Lightly beat eggs, taking care not to whip in air bubbles in before adding eggs
11. add egg in small amounts
12. After the batter is mixed and transferred into a piping bag, rest it in the refrigerator for 1–2 hours before piping. This will give the flour time to hydrate and the dough to relax. It is also easier to pipe the chill dough.
13. You did not mention the surface you are baking on, and that is extremely important. A perforated mat is best. Parchment paper is the second best. Honestly I’m not a fan of the silicone mats.

Your recipe


45g strong white bread flour (I used King Arthur flour which has a protein content of 12.7%)
45g plain flour (I used King Arthur AP flour with a protein content of 11.7%)
5g sugar
65ml whole milk
65 ml water
55g unsalted butter (This is American styled butter which I believe has a fat content of 80%)
¼ tsp salt
2 large eggs

Start with ratios close to the classic standard, then tweak it until you find the ratios that work Best for your oven, equipment and the brand of ingredients you use.

Here’s an example of ratios that are within standards for choux.


90g flour 10% - 11% protein 100%

7g sugar 7.77%

1.8g kosher salt 2%

58.5g unsalted butter 65%

162 ml liquids 180%

• 81 mL water
• 81 mL whole milk

135g whole eggs 150%

 

[Dm baking]

Thank you for the detailed response. Can't wait to try out the more traditional formula this weekend.

 

[Mona]

It sounds like your eclairs might be too moist or the dough might not be cooked through. Make sure your dough isn’t too runny or stiff, and try baking at a lower temperature like 350°F to allow the eclairs to cook more evenly. Also, ensure there’s some ventilation in the oven to let steam escape, which can help prevent the webbed texture. Finally, avoid misting with powdered sugar before baking, as it can add extra moisture. Adjusting these factors might help get your eclairs to the right texture!