Chiffon cake


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Question on Chiffon cake recipe? When i make my Chiffon cake i use 8 Eggs Separated, 2 cups cake flour, 1.5 cups sugar divided half with the batter and half with the egg whites, .5 tsp cream or tarter, 3 tsps Baking Powder, 1 tsp salt, .75 cups Seltzer water, .5 cups vegetable oil, 1 tsp vanilla, 2 tap Lemon extract and it comes out fine but the last one i made i forgot the oil and it still was very good? What is the oil for?
 
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Question on Chiffon cake recipe? When i make my Chiffon cake i use 8 Eggs Separated, 2 cups cake flour, 1.5 cups sugar divided half with the batter and half with the egg whites, .5 tsp cream or tarter, 3 tsps Baking Powder, 1 tsp salt, .75 cups Seltzer water, .5 cups vegetable oil, 1 tsp vanilla, 2 tap Lemon extract and it comes out fine but the last one i made i forgot the oil and it still was very good? What is the oil for?


There’s two types of whipped egg cakes, sponge and biscuit.

With a sponge the eggs are not separated, but whipped whole.

With a biscuit the eggs are separated and the egg whites whipped separately. And this makes a significant difference in the quality of the cake. But the amount of egg used also makes a difference Because the yolk contains fat.

Chiffon cake is based on a classic French biscuit.

A biscuit has significantly more egg in it than a chiffon cake. Since egg yolk is a source of fat, reducing the egg makes the cake is drier. So adding oil replaces much needed fat. Without it the cake still bakes, but is drier and the cake stales faster.
 
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There’s two types of whipped egg cakes, sponge and biscuit.

With a sponge the eggs are not separated, but whipped whole.

With a biscuit the eggs are separated and the egg whites whipped separately. And this makes a significant difference in the quality of the cake. But the amount of egg used also makes a difference Because the yolk contains fat.

Chiffon cake is based on a classic French biscuit.

A biscuit has significantly more egg in it than a chiffon cake. Since egg yolk is a source of fat, reducing the egg makes the cake is drier. So adding oil replaces much needed fat. Without it the cake still bakes, but is drier and the cake stales faster.
There’s two types of whipped egg cakes, sponge and biscuit.

With a sponge the eggs are not separated, but whipped whole.

With a biscuit the eggs are separated and the egg whites whipped separately. And this makes a significant difference in the quality of the cake. But the amount of egg used also makes a difference Because the yolk contains fat.

Chiffon cake is based on a classic French biscuit.

A biscuit has significantly more egg in it than a chiffon cake. Since egg yolk is a source of fat, reducing the egg makes the cake is drier. So adding oil replaces much needed fat. Without it the cake still bakes, but is drier and the cake stales faster.
So i should be adding the oil Thanks. I see on this site that Chiffon is your specialty? I followed you suggestion for using the seltzer water and it worked out perfectly any other tips for Chiffon Cake do you add Baking Powder even with the eggs whites?
 
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So i should be adding the oil Thanks. I see on this site that Chiffon is your specialty? I followed you suggestion for using the seltzer water and it worked out perfectly any other tips for Chiffon Cake do you add Baking Powder even with the eggs whites?

I would recommend you bake by weight and not by volume. Volume measurement is very inaccurate.

Chiffon cake is extremely temperamental. This is not a cake you want to mess around with, especially where the leavening is concerned. I did some experimenting with it and ended up with about two dozen collapsed cakes.

Harry baker spent six months working on the recipe. He had at least 100 collapsed cakes. After General Mills purchased the recipe, their test kitchen spent several months revising the recipe to assure home bakers could reproduce it at home.

Since it’s release it really has not changed.

The most important thing is stabilizing the egg whites.


  • Separate eggs while they are cold is easier so less chance of egg yolk getting into the egg white. Even a small amount of egg yolk into the whites can inhibit the ability of the whites to whip up. So care must be taken in separating the eggs.

  • Leave egg whites on counter to warm to 68°F (20°C)
EF587685-4CB3-4480-8E54-DFD81AB03E51.jpeg

  • Place egg whites in mixer bowl, beat on medium low speed for 30 seconds (#4 on a kitchenAid stand mixer). Add 1/8 level teaspoon cream of tartar per egg white.
DD7A0A5C-C0C9-4F3D-927F-E47A1894B881.jpeg




  • Continue beating medium low (#4 on a KitchenAid stand mixer) until egg whites are foamy and egg whites have double in volume from the foamy stage when the cream of tartar was added, begin adding the sugar.

2702933E-044B-474C-A570-8FB61F2352CA.jpeg




Firm peak

7EF723F3-6EE8-4ACE-AB3D-E2C41FB6F998.jpeg


Firm peak
92CA47FB-30D6-4547-81E7-D2CDFD3A12A6.jpeg


Stiff peak
B0CBBB67-6FF8-44E8-A210-68DD12169E85.jpeg


Stages of whipped eggs
675C60F4-5040-4545-9AE0-70DE3E4F65F3.jpeg


Use a whisk to fold in meringue; These are my favorite whisk to use. It is 14 wires; That’s a 8” chef knife for reference. This type of whisk is referred to as a French whisk. It is a shorter and narrower than a balloon whisk.
6CF68D3C-65F9-48DE-89F7-F0C07D85476F.jpeg
 

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I would recommend you bake by weight and not by volume. Volume measurement is very inaccurate.

Chiffon cake is extremely temperamental. This is not a cake you want to mess around with, especially where the leavening is concerned. I did some experimenting with it and ended up with about two dozen collapsed cakes.

Harry baker spent six months working on the recipe. He had at least 100 collapsed cakes. After General Mills purchased the recipe, their test kitchen spent several months revising the recipe to assure home bakers could reproduce it at home.

Since it’s release it really has not changed.

The most important thing is stabilizing the egg whites.


  • Separate eggs while they are cold is easier so less chance of egg yolk getting into the egg white. Even a small amount of egg yolk into the whites can inhibit the ability of the whites to whip up. So care must be taken in separating the eggs.

  • Leave egg whites on counter to warm to 68°F (20°C)
View attachment 3977
  • Place egg whites in mixer bowl, beat on medium low speed for 30 seconds (#4 on a kitchenAid stand mixer). Add 1/8 level teaspoon cream of tartar per egg white.
View attachment 3978



  • Continue beating medium low (#4 on a KitchenAid stand mixer) until egg whites are foamy and egg whites have double in volume from the foamy stage when the cream of tartar was added, begin adding the sugar.

View attachment 3982



Firm peak

View attachment 3980

Firm peak
View attachment 3981

Stiff peak
View attachment 3983

Stages of whipped eggs
View attachment 3985

Use a whisk to fold in meringue; These are my favorite whisk to use. It is 14 wires; That’s a 8” chef knife for reference. This type of whisk is referred to as a French whisk. It is a shorter and narrower than a balloon whisk.
View attachment 3986
All great tips thanks again. I do use weight measurement in my Baking i try to convert my recipes to weights. I do whip to Stiff peaks but i only but .5 tsp of Cream Of Tarter not a tsp as you mention. I have not used a whisk for the folding i use a rubber spatula but i am willing to try the whisk. But as for the Baking Powder is 3 tsp two much seams like a lot but that is the recipe i have.
 
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All great tips thanks again. I do use weight measurement in my Baking i try to convert my recipes to weights. I do whip to Stiff peaks but i only but .5 tsp of Cream Of Tarter not a tsp as you mention. I have not used a whisk for the folding i use a rubber spatula but i am willing to try the whisk. But as for the Baking Powder is 3 tsp two much seams like a lot but that is the recipe i have.

The recipe is in volume, not weight. So I have to make assumptions about what you actually using. this is why volume is not used in professional baking. It is inaccurate and there is absolutely no way to know what is going in the bowl.

Assuming you are using 113 g cake flour per cup

Assuming you are using 5 g baking powder per teaspoon

113g x 2 = 226g cake flour

5g x 3 = 15g baking powder

15 ÷ 226 = 0.066

6.6% baking powder

Standard standard is 4%, so your 2.6% above standard

I posted the standard in this thread. Some bakers on the site have use this recipe and have reported back that they have had success.

 
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The recipe is in volume, not weight. So I have to make assumptions about what you actually using. this is why volume is not used in professional baking. It is inaccurate and there is absolutely no way to know what is going in the bowl.

Assuming you are using 113 g cake flour per cup

Assuming you are using 5 g baking powder per teaspoon

113g x 2 = 226g cake flour

5g x 3 = 15g baking powder

15 ÷ 226 = 0.066

6.6% baking powder

Standard standard is 4%, so your 2.6% above standard

I posted the standard in this thread. Some bakers on the site have use this recipe and have reported back that they have had success.

8 jumbo egg whites
8 egg yokes
260 grams sifted cake flour
11.87 grams baking powder
1.5 cups sugar split in half 5.82 oz in cake batter and 5.82 in egg whites
1.5 grams tsp cream of tarter
1 tsp salt
112.5 grams corn oil
.626 oz seltzer water .750 cups
1 tsp vanilla
2 tsp lemon
mix 12 min
 
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8 jumbo egg whites
8 egg yokes
260 grams sifted cake flour
11.87 grams baking powder
1.5 cups sugar split in half 5.82 oz in cake batter and 5.82 in egg whites
1.5 grams tsp cream of tarter
1 tsp salt
112.5 grams corn oil
.626 oz seltzer water .750 cups
1 tsp vanilla
2 tsp lemon
mix 12 min

260 g cake flour is not 2 cups, but 2 1/3 cups. But increasing the cake flour actually corrects the ratios for both the baking powder and the oil. IF you had not made that adjustment then the oil and the baking powder would’ve been off.
 
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260 g cake flour is not 2 cups, but 2 1/3 cups. But increasing the cake flour actually corrects the ratios for both the baking powder and the oil. IF you had not made that adjustment then the oil and the baking powder would’ve been off.
So the recipe as written is ok correct bake ate 325 for 40 to 50 minutes invert for cooling? I do have a question when I check the internet for 2 cups of cake flour is says 260 grams and my app says the same? I use an app called cupful to convert my recipes
 
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So the recipe as written is ok correct bake ate 325 for 40 to 50 minutes invert for cooling? I do have a question when I check the internet for 2 cups of cake flour is says 260 grams and my app says the same? I use an app called cupful to convert my recipes

I think the way you have converted it it’s working.

But your app is wrong about cake flour. Cake Flour is low extraction, meaning nearly all the bran and wheat germ is removed. It’s finely milled and bleached. So it weighs less than all purpose flour that has more bran and germ.

cake flour
C14CD356-E06C-4470-9F22-F7673345F773.jpeg



Spoon
BED80FC2-5120-483B-ACFE-404782076F76.jpeg


level
545FF84D-A388-4B95-856D-E2B1AF14B4BD.jpeg


113g. If the Dip and Level method is used to fill the cup, it would be about 120g. To get 130g in a cup, you would have to cram the flour into the cup.
5E12A4F7-03DB-4603-B3C3-6F0E70967D6F.jpeg
 
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Yeah I’ve seen those calculators. But they’re wrong. We scoop out flour in a certain way in an effort to “weigh out” a certain amount. that’s why I specifically spooned flour into the cup and leveled it off. And that’s why I said if you scooped flour with the measuring cup and leveled it off it would be approximately 120 g.

There is method behind what we do.

From early 1900’s - 1990s 140 g = 1 cup was the standard as the Dip and Level method was the standard for measuring flour. 130 g isn’t even a standard for a cup.

Recipes from the following sources generally use Spoon and Level: 1 cup = 120 grams/4.25 oz. this method for measuring came about in the 2000s. King Arthur flour arbitrarily started promoting it.

  • King Arthur Flour
  • Brave Tart
  • Sally's Baking Addiction
  • Handle the Heat

Recipes from the following sources use weights that they arbitrarily made up.

  • Dorie Greenspan 136 g = 1 cup
  • Smitten Kitchen 126 g - 130 g = 1 cup
  • Anna Olsen 150 g = 1 Cup


Recipes for the following sources generally use the Dip and Level Method: 1 cup = 142 grams/5 oz. This standard of level measurements was established by Fannie Farmer when she published The Boston Cooking-School Cook Book in 1896. In 1915 the U.S. Bureau of Standards codified the measurements for cups and teaspoons.
  • America’s Test Kitchen
  • Cook's Country
  • Chris Kimball - Milk Street
  • some earlier Stella Parks on Serious Eats 140 g = 1 cup
  • Joy of Baking
  • Serious Eats (EXCEPT where noted and most of the recipes by Stella Parks
  • Older Betty Crocker recipes (1970's and earlier)
  • Older Fanny Farmer recipes (1970's and earlier)
 
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I guess it kind of confusing. Don't know which one is right? So 1 cup of cake flour should weight 120 grams is there a site that has the correct weight for baking?
 
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I guess it kind of confusing. Don't know which one is right? So 1 cup of cake flour should weight 120 grams is there a site that has the correct weight for baking?

Cake flour as I explained why is less than all purpose flour.

SPOON and LEVEL method.
113 g = 1 cup

DIP and LEVEL
120 g = 1 cup

======================

Recipe developers use different standards. Some are pretty consistent in adhering to a standard (King Arthur flour, America’s Test Kitchen, J. Kenji Alt-Lopez, Milk Street). Others are somewhat consistent. So I’ve organized those into the groups in which they fall. Most of the recipes will use the standard but you’ll find recipes that also fall out of the norm.

All purpose and bread flour
120 g = 1 cup for these sources below because they use the SPOON and LEVEL

* King Arthur Flour
* Brave Tart
* Sally's Baking Addiction
* Handle the Heat

All purpose and bread flour
140 g = 1 cup for those sources that I listed that use the DIP and LEVEL

- * America’s Test Kitchen
* Cook's Country
* Chris Kimball - Milk Street
* some earlier Stella Parks on Serious Eats 140 g = 1 cup
* Joy of Baking
* Serious Eats (EXCEPT where noted and most of the recipes by Stella Parks
* Older Betty Crocker recipes (1970's and earlier)
* Older Fanny Farmer recipes (1970's and earlier)


I mentioned Dorie Greenspan and a couple of others that do kind of oddball measurements above.
 
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260 g cake flour is not 2 cups, but 2 1/3 cups. But increasing the cake flour actually corrects the ratios for both the baking powder and the oil. IF you had not made that adjustment then the oil and the baking powder would’ve been off.
So with any recipe you can figure out how much baking powder to use based off the flour? What about the other indigence like the sugar and the oil is there also a formula to figure that also?
 
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So with any recipe you can figure out how much baking powder to use based off the flour? What about the other indigence like the sugar and the oil is there also a formula to figure that also?

No. You asked me if the baking powder in your recipe was too high. The only way I could assess that is to calculate the baker’s percentages. But you posted was in cups and teaspoons, which is useless to make any analysis. So I converted it to metric weight. You then responded that the cake flour was 260 g. Which I said was an incorrect conversion for 2 cups of cake flour. But if you are using 260 g, then that increase would put the ratio in the ballpark.

I didn’t explained the two proper ways flour is measured using a measuring cup; the weights they total when measured. And listed the various websites that use the two different methods.

If someone is baking using a measuring cup it’s important that they understand how to measure the flour. If they use a recipe from King Flour, and they use a measuring cup, they must use the SPOON and LEVEL method because this method will yield 120g flour per cup.

If they use a recipe from SERIOUS EATS, and they use a measuring cup, they must use the DIP and LEVEL because this method will yield 140g flour per cup.


Baking is a chemical reaction of all the ingredients to time and temperature. Home bakers work from recipes. Recipes are made up for home bakers. A recipe is pre-measured ingredients and instructions on how to mix them. Professional bakers don’t use recipes. They use formulas.

A formula is established percentages of specific ingredients, the percentages of which have been calculated against the weight of the flour. A percentage is a number expressed as a fraction of 100.

To create a formula in baking, a baker takes a specific set of ingredients; then using the weight of the flour, calculates a percentage of each of the other ingredients based on the weight of the flour.

Depending on what they want to make, they change the percentage of the other ingredients. Flour is always 100%, but to make a chiffon cake 60% water is added. But to make a chocolate chip, 0% water is added.

The type and amount of leavening varies by what is being made as well. Flour is always 100%. In a chiffon cake, leavening is usually baking powder at 3.5% since it also has whipped egg whites to leaven. A butter cake made with all purpose flour might have 4.5%.


Chiffon Cake
DO NOT GREASE YOUR CAKE TIN
Baker’s Percentages
This is the formula
8” test cake -
this would “recipe”
cake flour100%113g
leavening (normally baking powder)3.5%4g
fine salt1.5%1.5g
sugar #190%102g
citrus zest
vegetable oil50%56ml
egg yolk50%56ml
water*60%68ml
vanilla extract2.5%3ml
egg whites, 68°F100%113ml
sugar #240%45g
cream of tartar0.03%3.3
 
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260 g cake flour is not 2 cups, but 2 1/3 cups. But increasing the cake flour actually corrects the ratios for both the baking powder and the oil. IF you had not made that adjustment then the oil and the baking powder would’ve been off.

CONVERSIONS FOR COMMON BAKING INGREDIENTS​

INGREDIENT | OUNCES | GRAMS
| 1 cup all-purpose flour | 5 oz | 142g |
| 1 cup cake flour | 4 oz | 113g |
| 1 cup whole wheat flour | 5 1/2 oz | 156g |
| 1 cup granulated (white) sugar | 7 oz | 198g |
| 1 cup packed brown sugar (light or dark) | 7 oz | 198g |
| 1 cup confectioners' sugar | 4 oz | 113g |
| 1 cup cocoa powder | 3 oz | 85g |
| Butter |
| 4 tablespoons (1/2 stick, or 1/4 cup) | 2 oz | 57g |
| 8 tablespoons (1 stick, or 1/2 cup) | 4 oz | 113g |
| 16 tablespoons (2 sticks, or 1 cup) | 8 oz | 227g |


Norcalbaker your the best and your always right. I love reading your post when you answer some of there questions .You really help people to understand

if this conversions chart is wrong tell me and I will delete it .. I found it on Cooks Illustrated
 
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CONVERSIONS FOR COMMON BAKING INGREDIENTS​

INGREDIENT | OUNCES | GRAMS
| 1 cup all-purpose flour | 5 oz | 142g |
| 1 cup cake flour | 4 oz | 113g |
| 1 cup whole wheat flour | 5 1/2 oz | 156g |
| 1 cup granulated (white) sugar | 7 oz | 198g |
| 1 cup packed brown sugar (light or dark) | 7 oz | 198g |
| 1 cup confectioners' sugar | 4 oz | 113g |
| 1 cup cocoa powder | 3 oz | 85g |
| Butter |
| 4 tablespoons (1/2 stick, or 1/4 cup) | 2 oz | 57g |
| 8 tablespoons (1 stick, or 1/2 cup) | 4 oz | 113g |
| 16 tablespoons (2 sticks, or 1 cup) | 8 oz | 227g |


Norcalbaker your the best and your always right. I love reading your post when you answer some of there questions .You really help people to understand

if this conversions chart is wrong tell me and I will delete it .. I found it on Cooks Illustrated

Ahh @stella11366 my friend. How are you?

Keep the chart. The standard is for the 140g = 1 cup. Those that came out of ATK, like J. Kenji Alt-Lopez, the folks at Milk Street, Cook’s County all use this standard.

I’m going to date myself, but this is what we were taught in seventh and eighth grade home economic cooking classes. Along with sift three times:). If you ever want to use a vintage American recipe, this is the standard.

=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=

Now to link below for King Arthur Flour for standard for 120g =
1 cup

King Arthur started using the standard. And a lot of bakers’ started to follow suit. When use a recipe online that is on volume measurement only, it’s really important to know what standard the recipe developer uses. most bloggers will respond to their comments. So if you’re unsure ask in the comment section.

If you don’t get an answer probably safest to assume they use the spoon and level method. That’s the most common method among young bakers.

=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•=•
The other important thing to remember is King Arthur all purpose flour is UNBLEACHED 11.7% protein.

Unbleached flour absorbs more moisture than bleached flour. The high Protein content also absorbs more moisture. This flour is great for drop cookies, biscotti, rolls, quick breads like zucchini bread, some bread, rustic tarts and pies.

It is not a flour you would want to use for a cake, a sweet delicate pie or tart, shortbread cookie.


 

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