Cinnamon roll help

Discussion in 'Disaster Help' started by Irish lass 77, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Irish lass 77

    Irish lass 77 Member

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    hi everyone,
    I have a great recipe for cinnamon rolls and people go crazy for them. It’s just a copycat Cinnabon recipe. Sometimes they’re beautiful (I bake in 9x13) a lot of times though
    1. the middle ones are deflated and still doughy after the outsiders bake up so high and nice.
    2. Sometimes when I’m rolling the dough up the middle opens up and the cinnamon sugar falls out. I’m thinking I’m just not rolling out evenly ?
    Any suggestions
    Thanks !!!
     
    Irish lass 77, Jul 6, 2018
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  2. Irish lass 77

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    It would help to see the recipe including the oven temperature. Also what is the pan made of? If it’s metal, is it non-stick? It is a dark color or light metal?
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jul 6, 2018
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  3. Irish lass 77

    Irish lass 77 Member

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    Irish lass 77, Jul 6, 2018
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  4. Irish lass 77

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this info is very helpful Irish Lass 77.

    I think it’s a combination of three factors: sugar, water content, and the glass baking dish.

    Both flour and sugar are hygroscopic meaning they absorb water from the environment. When there is significantly more flour to sugar, as with a yeast dough, the flour will absorb more of the available water.

    The water comes from the milk, butter, eggs. Unlike a cake, a yeast dough has some gluten development, so it does not need the egg for dough strength.

    You can reduce the water by reducing the egg to one.

    One egg for this amount of flour is sufficient. I in fact have a recipe with the same amount of flour, liquid, and butter. The only differences is the liquid is a combination of water and milk, and it calls for one egg.

    The glass baking dish is probably adding to the water problem. Glass takes longer to heat, but once heated, it conducts heat move intensity than metal. Everything bakes from the outside edge toward the center. When the glass baking dish finally gets hot, the dough in direct contact with the baking dish, the edge, bakes at a much faster rate than the center.

    The general rule with baking in a glass baking dish is to reduce the oven temperature by 25°F. The exception is using a glass pie plate. When baking pie you definitely want to bake in a very hot oven, around 400°F to start, the 375°F.

    You could bake in a metal pan. But if it’s a nonstick pan, anodized metal pan such as Fat Daddio, or a dark colored metal pan, you will have the same heat conductivity issues. So if you will have to reduce the oven temperature by 25°F. My 9” x 13” is non-stick, so I bake my cinnamon rolls at 330°F.

    A natural untreated metal pan can bake at 350°F. Now regarding oven temperature I’m assuming you have and use an oven thermometer to ensure the oven is at the correct temperature.

    Regarding the filling falling out, I prefer to blend the sugar and cinnamon into the softened butter. Then use a very soft pastry brush to spread it over the dough. There’s never an issue with the cinnamon sugar falling out.

    When arranging in the baking dish make sure there is ample room between each roll. You do not want to overcrowd the pan as it will slow the rate of baking in the center.

    When the rolls are fully proofed and ready to bake they should just touch each other.


    I leave ample space between rolls
    A73F2F2E-3824-45F5-9CF0-C068835B152B.jpeg

    They should just touch when ready to bake
    870AB401-67D0-40F4-B5FC-D460E17711C6.jpeg


    These are from the center of the pan, baked, light and fluffy
    CD0AA840-7E0E-43D7-98EB-FDC19F38BB78.jpeg
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jul 6, 2018
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  5. Irish lass 77

    Irish lass 77 Member

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    My goodness @Norcalbaker59 those are some beauties. I can taste the fluffiness in the pic!!
    I will take all these great tips and use them for my next cinn roll bake. I usually double this recipe as people purchase them from me. Also I do not have a oven thermometer. I’m a new baker and I do know there is hot and cold spots in the oven so best to rotate ?? I also have a convection setting. I have NEVER used my convection. I have no idea how to!!! . My children’s father bought this house from his mom years ago and I moved back in with him only a few years ago so I’ve got to look into how to use it.
    Thank you so much for all of your helpful information that will be used!!! I’m in Vermont and it’s been hot and humid so I haven’t been baking. As Mr. Rogers would say “won’t you be my neighbor” I could use your expertise
     
    Irish lass 77, Jul 6, 2018
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  6. Irish lass 77

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome @Irish lass 77. I hope all works out for you.


    I would encourage you to purchase an oven thermometer. Most are under $10. I use CDN Pro Accurate ($8) and a Taylor Precision ($6). Think of heat as a ingredient. Baking is a chemical reaction that does not happen without heat. So the amount of heat you add, whether from friction in the mixer bowl or heat in the oven has to be measured just like you measure the flour and other ingredients. Adding too much or too little heat can cause failure.

    Regarding rotating: all conventional ovens will have hot and cold spots; it’s the nature of the beast. Rotate only if you consistently notice uneven browning OR if you are baking two pans that take up ¾ of the oven rack. My oven has a cold spot on the far right side, so I only rotate when I using a 2/3 sheet pan since it stretches across the entire rack. I do not rotate when the pans are small and fit in the center of the rack; there is a dramatic drop in temperature when the oven door is opened, so I prefer to leave things to bake undisturbed whenever possible.

    Personally, I wouldn’t worry about the convection feature on the oven. Home convection ovens are not really suitable for baking.

    In a convection oven, fan circulates the heat in the oven chamber. This provides for even distribution of heat. While in theory this sounds like a better way to bake as heat will circulate around and in between pans in the oven. And that works very well in commercial production when you are baking a dozen cakes at a time in a very large oven chamber. You need heat to circulate between the pans and fill the entire oven chamber.

    But convection ovens bake very hot, so recipes are adjusted and commercial dough conditioners are added that improve the quality of the doughs and batters. The baking temperature is also dropped significantly. Where a home baker bakes a cake at 350°F, a bakery will bake cakes at 275°F - 300°F in a convection oven. If baked at 350°F in a convection oven, most cakes will burst in the center.

    Since home ovens have very small oven chambers and usually only two pans at a time are baked, the extreme heat produced with a convection oven is not needed and does more damage than good. Even at reduced temperatures, the convection oven will dry out, crack, and over bake just about everything. It’s like using a sledgehammer to put in a thumbtack into a corkboard. I had a Viking convection/conventional oven for 8 years and never used the convections for baking.

    Since your oven is a convection/conventional combination, it is probably well made. So your conventional setting should be fine.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jul 7, 2018
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  7. Irish lass 77

    Irish lass 77 Member

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    Awesome !!!! Thank you so much. I think I tried to use the convection setting once and had NO clue what I was doing. So that’s good to know. I’m headed to King Arthur in a bit. So to make things clear in your honest opinion/ experience what should I bake in ?
     
    Irish lass 77, Jul 9, 2018
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  8. Irish lass 77

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    My preference is always natural metal. That means no coating, no non-stick, no color, no anodized aluminum like Fat Daddio. The reason commercial kitchens use plain metal is it conducts heat well, does not over brown and produce that hard dry crust from too intense heat. Brands I like are Chicago Metallic and Parrish’s Magic Line. A month or so ago I purchased a couple of Nordicware natural metal pans and found they are not true to size, they are 1/2” smaller than the size indicates.

    Magic Line pans have a cult like following with cake bakers, especially wedding cake bakers. That natural metal produces a very light colored crust that is not dry or hard. And there’s square pans produce a beautiful sharp corner.

    If you purchase a pan with any type of coating reduce the temperature by 15°F – 25°F. In this way you can better control browning and achieve a more even bake.

    Couple of tips:

    - Always preheat your oven for 30 minutes before using. It takes at least 30 minutes for the entire oven to come up to temperature.

    - Baker’s grease: Mix equal parts by weight of shortening, cooking oil, mix equal parts by weight of shortening, cooking oil, flour mix flour. Apply a light with a pastry brush to pan. Nothing will stick.

    - Lining pans with parchment paper doesn’t just prevents sticking, but can be used to lift everything out of the pan to the cooling rack without flipping it over. Important when you don’t want to damage the top.

    Happy baking.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jul 9, 2018
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  9. Irish lass 77

    Irish lass 77 Member

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    Thank you very much. Will be purchasing one of these pans ASAP. Do you think it matters what kind of bowl I let the dough rise in? I’ve done glass, and plastic.
    Thanks!!
     
    Irish lass 77, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM
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  10. Irish lass 77

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

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    @Irish lass 77,
    When baking products for sale the two primary concerns in your equipment, tools, and utensils are proper sanitation and prevention of cross contamination of odors/stains.

    Nearly all states have cottage food industry laws that require operators to adhere to the same food handling standards as restaurants. So your containers should be able to withstand the sanitation requirements. Below is a link that will explain the requirements.

    Given the amount of time the dough will spend in the container, it’s important the container be resistant to and free of embedded odors and stains.

    You must be able to sanitize it with either heat or an approved chemical sanitizers. Heat must be at the established temperature; chemicals must be one of the three approved chemicals AND at the concentration specified.

    Glass is fine as long as the surface isn’t etched, scratched, or otherwise damaged. It can withstand heat over 180°F, which is the temperature required for sanitation with a dishwasher. And it can handle chemical sanitation.

    Most plastics are problematic. The polypropylene containers are porous, so odors and stains get in it. Most have a maximum temperature range of 160°F, which is below the 180°F necessary for sanitation. Many do not handle chemical sanitation for the long haul.

    Polycarbonate is the food storage container of choice in most commercial kitchens for its durability and the ability to sanitize it. It withstands temperatures up to 210°F; resists stains and odors; doesn’t deteriorate when acidic foods are stored in them.

    I’ve been using polycarbonate storage containers for close to 10 years and have yet to damage or replace a single one. So while they are more expensive than your average plastic and glass bowl, given their durability they are the better value.

    For proofing dough I use a straight-sided square or round container. In a bowl it is impossible to tell how much the dough has increased in bulk since the bottom is narrow and the sides are wide. As the dough rises it spreads out in every direction.


    http://www.foodsafetysite.com/resources/pdfs/EnglishServSafe/ENGSection11Cleaning.pdf

    These are made by Cambro. They market to the trade, so they meet safe food handling requirements. The lids are sold separately.

    8668DAFE-81CB-40C4-9E5F-2190158D920D.jpeg


    DA0DE105-1AEE-4C9B-95DB-855247C5E1A0.jpeg
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jul 14, 2018 at 9:41 PM
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