Dried ?inactive yeast

[Emmie]

I recently switched from instant yeast to dried active. I'm storing a third of it in an air proof container in a ziplock bag in the fridge and the rest in the freezer. After a disappointing first loaf, I thought I'd try my standard recipe. It still didn't rise as much as I'm used to with instant. I was prepared for it not to rise as quickly but left it for 2 hours for the first rise and it still wasn't doubled in size and didn't have that puffy texture I normally get with instant. I don't know whether it's me/the environment or the yeast.

The things I've done differently from normal are: using T65 flour instead of standard store bought bread flour, slightly different shape tin, the kitchen might have been a degree or two cooler - about 19C. With the yeast, I didn't proof it but did dissolve it in the water (tepid) before adding to the flour and kept the salt separate as much as possible.

The yeast itself smells much more strongly than than instant I'm used to. I did proof it tonight - a teaspoon of yeast (not stirred) in 100F water with a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in the water for 5 minutes. And I'm not too sure what I'm actually looking for. I got a bit of froth and that's it. Do I need to let the yeast come to room temp first?

I really want to use something other than instant yeast but I was really improving with it and now I'm back to pretty heavy bread that smells quite yeasty, though I might just be quite sensitive to taste and smell.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I recently switched from instant yeast to dried active. I'm storing a third of it in an air proof container in a ziplock bag in the fridge and the rest in the freezer. After a disappointing first loaf, I thought I'd try my standard recipe. It still didn't rise as much as I'm used to with instant. I was prepared for it not to rise as quickly but left it for 2 hours for the first rise and it still wasn't doubled in size and didn't have that puffy texture I normally get with instant. I don't know whether it's me/the environment or the yeast.

The things I've done differently from normal are: using T65 flour instead of standard store bought bread flour, slightly different shape tin, the kitchen might have been a degree or two cooler - about 19C. With the yeast, I didn't proof it but did dissolve it in the water (tepid) before adding to the flour and kept the salt separate as much as possible.

The yeast itself smells much more strongly than than instant I'm used to. I did proof it tonight - a teaspoon of yeast (not stirred) in 100F water with a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in the water for 5 minutes. And I'm not too sure what I'm actually looking for. I got a bit of froth and that's it. Do I need to let the yeast come to room temp first?

I really want to use something other than instant yeast but I was really improving with it and now I'm back to pretty heavy bread that smells quite yeasty, though I might just be quite sensitive to taste and smell.

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How much liquid is in the bowl? You don’t need much liquid to rehydrate yeast, about 100mL is plenty. And not too much sugar,

1 tsp of yeast is a small amount, about 3g. How much flour? If you used 150g - 200g flour, then 3g yeast would be enough to rise the dough.

But typically a loaf of bread is 350g - 480g flour, and 7g or slightly more yeast is needed.

 

[Emmie]

Hi Norcal, how are you doing? Thanks for your reply. I've not been well so didn't feel much like baking or coming on here.

I think I probably had about 200ml water and a teaspoon each of sugar and yeast.

But actually a couple of days ago I tried again and it worked! I just think I wasn't working at a warm enough temperature. With instant yeast I normally use water that feels neither cool nor warm, just sort of wet! I also just leave the dough on the side or in a cold oven to protect from draughts and it works absolutely fine. I think I wasn't factoring in that power rise that instant has and was wondering why my dough with dried active yeast hadn't risen, when it just needed longer at the temperatures I work at - my kitchen is about 18C/64F in the winter and I have cold hands so I guess water that feels tepid to me is probably cold to everyone else. I should use a thermometer, I know.

A couple of days ago I made pizza and figured I'd give the yeast another go and it didn't matter so much if there wasn't a great rise. I used warm water this time, didn't take the temp but I'd happily bath a baby in it. Left the yeast, water and a pinch of sugar for 5 minutes then mixed it with the flour. 250g flour, 70% hydration. I used 4g yeast and a glug of olive oil too. Then I left it in a warm room, about 22C/77F and it was perfect! I made mozzarella and caramelised onion tear and share bread the next day too as it was soooooo good.

I think the moral of the story is I'm a cold-blooded reptile and I don't realise how chilly my kitchen is and if I go back to my old method of lukewarm water and a cool room, I just need to be prepared to leave the dough for 4 or 5 hours. Or maybe I'll try a rise in the fridge, though I can never remember whether it's meant to be the first or second one.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hello @Emmie, i’m glad your pizza turned out well. Yes the temperature of the liquid will definitely determine how quickly the yeast develops. Like all living organisms it has it preferences for temperature. It is most active around 95°F (35°C). If your kitchen is very cold then the warm water will reduce in temperature of rapidly. And that will inhibit the development of the yeast.

Have you tried calculating out your DDT? That is when you calculate The temperature of your water based on the temperature of your kitchen, flour, preferment (if using) and the friction from mixing.

just an aside, you don’t have to bloom instant yeast. It is designed to mix in with your dry ingredients.

 

[Emmie]

Hi! Yes, I’ve never bloomed instant, which is why I thought I was doing something wrong with the active yeast as I had no idea what I was doing!

No, I‘ve never calculated DDT. Is it worth the effort? It’s not that I can’t be bothered, but I always like to weigh up effort vs results! Is it the kind of thing that’s quick once you know how to do it or better just for special bakes? I don’t have a thermometer in my kitchen but kind of judge the temp from my heating thermostat and outdoor temp. I always knead by hand for about 10-12 minutes.

It‘s been lovely and warm and sunny here today (for the UK!) and I’m feeling much more in a cooking and baking groove, especially now I know neither my yeast nor myself is rubbish! Curry and parathas today and making a Victoria sponge for my husband’s birthday on Monday. Still debating whether to make a true sponge or classic Victoria. Then trying some hot cross buns with tangzhong and an improved recipe in the week.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi! Yes, I’ve never bloomed instant, which is why I thought I was doing something wrong with the active yeast as I had no idea what I was doing!

No, I‘ve never calculated DDT. Is it worth the effort? It’s not that I can’t be bothered, but I always like to weigh up effort vs results! Is it the kind of thing that’s quick once you know how to do it or better just for special bakes? I don’t have a thermometer in my kitchen but kind of judge the temp from my heating thermostat and outdoor temp. I always knead by hand for about 10-12 minutes.

It‘s been lovely and warm and sunny here today (for the UK!) and I’m feeling much more in a cooking and baking groove, especially now I know neither my yeast nor myself is rubbish! Curry and parathas today and making a Victoria sponge for my husband’s birthday on Monday. Still debating whether to make a true sponge or classic Victoria. Then trying some hot cross buns with tangzhong and an improved recipe in the week.

Oh OK I didn’t know if you were blooming the instant yeast or not. A lot of people bloom the instant yeast not realizing that it’s designed to mix into the dry ingredients. It’s not to say you can’t, but you don’t have to it’s perfectly fine to just dump it into the dry m

Since you knead by hand and have a cold kitchen don’t think you really need to worry about DDT much now. I sure @ShuBunny would love to trade her hot kitchen for your cold one.

The finish dough temperature is really a significant in the finished quality of the yeast products as temperature will accelerate the speed of yeast development. do you want the temperature of the mixed dough to be 75°F (18°C) or slightly below. If the dough is above the temperature it can cause dough to over proof as yeast will thrive in temperatures at 95°F (35°C) and above. So keeping the mixed dough below ideal temperatures keeps the yeast in check during the first rise.

Every baker calculates the DDT before they mix their dough. But they’re also working in hot kitchens and using mixers which creates friction heat. As long as you are in a cold kitchen, and you are mixing by hand your dough is probably not going above 75°F (23°C). And that is the temperature for the first proof, what is referred to as the bulk or bench fermentation.

The second proof (after shaping) for most doughs is 78°F-82°F (25.6°C-27.8°C).

if you are going to do a lot of baking you should probably think about getting an instant read thermometer. It’s important to know the temperature of your batters and doughs.

When creaming butter, the butter should be 65°F (18°C) when you start. Your finished batter should not exceed 68°F (20°C) when finished mixing the batter.

Sugar syrup needs to be 248°F - 250°F (120°C – 121°C) for Italian meringue. To make the butter cream the butter should be about 70°F (21°C).

when tempering dark chocolate it needs to be melted to 125°F (51°C) cold to 85°F (29°C) then brought back to a working temperature of 89°F (31°C)

Monitoring temperature in the kitchen is a big part of baking.

 

[Emmie]

Thanks Norcal, that‘s really helpful. I didn’t know the second rise should really be at a warmer temperature than the first. But it’s good to know I don’t really have to worry about DDT in the winter, at least. It can get up to 38C here in the summer though so something to think about then.

i do have a thermometer that I’ve used for sugar and creaming but I’d never thought to use it with actual bread dough! Sounds like I should get a room thermometer for the kitchen though.

 

[ShuBunny]

That’s a great learning point for the different temperatures for first and second proofing @Norcalbaker59 !

I will trade my hot kitchen for @Emmie cold kitchen, but there’s one thing I am thankful for in a warm climate. No cold potty seats ever.

@Emmie I usually Google the temp for the room temp, but that because I work with windows open etc. But taking room temperature with our thermometer makes better sense! You have a good point