IS THIS GOOD PIE CRUST DOUGH (FROM SCRATCH)?

[NOVICE.BAKER]

 

[retired baker]

View attachment 3136View attachment 3136

Just keep going, if it fails blame the flour or the oven.
What are you making?

 

[NOVICE.BAKER]

Just keep going, if it fails blame the flour or the oven.
What are you making?

I'm making Apple Pie.

 

[NOVICE.BAKER]

I'm making Apple Pie.

(Edit. It didn't come out well. What do you suggest was the problem? Is it the crust? The oven? Or is it that I simply didn't bake it long enough? I would really like to know at which point did I take a left in baking this pie.

 

[retired baker]

Its not bad, did you vent the top crust to stop steam from inflating it?

 

[NOVICE.BAKER]

Yeah. I made 3 slits in the top crust like the recipe I read directed

 

[NOVICE.BAKER]

Could it have been this aluminum foil pan. You know, I wasn't to sure of using this. It probably was this.

 

[retired baker]

I use alum foil pie pans. Its not that.
Is the apple filling pre-cooked or filled raw.?

 

[NOVICE.BAKER]

Filled raw

 

[retired baker]

bakeries use pie filling to prevent voids. The filling is already cooked and doesn't collapse in the oven.
I'd be perfectly satisfied with the pie you made.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

From pervious posts I’ve made on pie crust...



1. Right Ratios: The recipes out there wrong on the ratios. You have to get the right amount of fat and water in the dough. See below.


2. Technique: use the correct mixing technique. The rough puff pastry produces the flaky crunchy crust. see below.


3. Bake hot: 400°F – 425°F depending on the deep dish or not. Reduce to 385°F after 10 minutes


4. Rack position: Most bakers put the rack dead center. But the bottom of the pie should be one rung below the middle.


5. Metal rimmed baking sheet: preheat the baking sheet with the oven


6. Thickener: are use the correct thickener. See below


7. Use glass or metal pie plate.


8. Do NOT dock pie crust unless you are blind baking it. If you dock a pie crust that is going to be filled and baked, the juice fillings the holes and makes the crust soggy


9. Cut apples uniformly and no more than 1/2” thick. Par-cook apples. Then completely cool before filling the pie shell.


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Bakers percentages for pie crust:

• Flour 100%
• Fat 70%
• Water 30%
• Sugar 5%
• Salt 1.5%

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Double pie crust - mix dough day before

• 320g all purpose flour (2 1/4c dip & level you must use this method if you use volume measurements) (1.00%)
• 16g (1 TBSP) sugar (.05%)
• 224g (2 sticks) unsalted butter, cold (.70%)
• 5g (1 tsp) Diamond brand kosher salt (.015%)
• 96ml (7.5 TBSP) ice water (.30%)

Method

1. Dissolve salt in ice water.
2. In large bowl whisk sugar into flour
3. cut butter into half inch cubes
4. Toss butter into flour
5. Pinch each butter cubes flat into flour
6. Stir salt water into flour and butter
7. Mix the flour and butter into a dough ball
8. Lightly flour work surface
9. Roll ball into rectangle
10. Fold each end to center
11. Fold in half for double book fold
12. Turn dough 1/4
13. Roll the dough into a rectangle
14. Double book fold
15. 1/4 turn
16. Roll the dough do a rectangle
17. Double book fold
18. Divide the dough in two; one slightly larger piece. The larger piece will be the bottom crust.
19. Wrap the dough and refrigerate it at least 4 hours, preferably overnight.
20. Resting the dough is necessary to allow the gluten to relax and allow the flour to fully hydrate. Resting overnight is best.
21. Allow the dough to warm up for approximately 15 minutes before rolling.
22. Use as little flour as possible. Begin by tapping from the center to outside edge; make 1/4 turn and repeat. This will gently flatten the disk first. Then from the center, roll center to outside edge. Make 1/4 turn and repeat. This keeps dough from sticking and keeps the disk even by rolling from center to outside edge. When you dust with flour, brush away all excess. Working excess flour into the dough will make crust dry and tough. Keep the dough moving by turning with each pass of rolling pin.
23. Do not dock (poke holes) in crust unless blind baking
24. After placing crust in pie plate, and rolling out top, cover with plastic wrap and fully chill at least 20 - 30 minutes before filling. May rolled out and chill hours in advance, or freeze 3 months in advance. Just take care to wrap well with plastic wrap to prevent freezer burn.

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Rough puff instructions in this video. Follow the mixing instructions through three double folds. Since you are making pie dough not rough puff pastry you do not need to chill and do additional folds and turns. But you need to rest the pie dough after it is mixed. That is a must.



https://www.finecooking.com/article/episode-9-rough-puff-pastry-tarts





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Note on Flours brands:



Unbleached - all of these flowers are in fact Central Milling Beehive 10.5% protein

• Whole Foods 365 all purpose
• Safeway O organics all purpose
• Central Milling Beehive (available on their website)

I do not recommend King Arthur all purpose flour for pie crust because the protein content is way too high at 11.7%. Too strong a flour makes a tough crust; high protein means more gluten, which means more elasticity. So a more difficult dough to roll and work with. It also more elasticity causes more shrinkage in baking.



I also do not recommend Bob’s Red Mill because they do not care enough about the quality of their flour to maintain a consistent source of wheat. Their protein content varies from 10% - 12%. So one bag can be like pastry flour, the next bag can be bread flour!



Fat: European style butter at 83% butterfat such as Pulgra provides flavor and is not too soft. (assuming you are in US)



Water: 30% water is correct. The biggest myth in baking is add Just enough water to pie dough to pull it together. That is completely wrong. Do you need water to make a dough. Puff pastry is flaky and crunchy. It has 50% water in it. So do not believe that crap about sprinkling water a tablespoon at a time into pie dough. And if you don’t want to take my word for it, believe the master. I purchased the textbook from the top baking school in America. It’s 30% water.



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Thickener: tapioca starch is the best thickener or fruit filling. Bob’s Red Mill is the brand I use. The now market is as Tapioca Flour instead of tapioca starch.



PREHEAT OVEN AND METAL BAKING TRAY MINIMUM 30 MINUTES BEFORE BAKING PIE



400°F – 425°F depending on the deep dish or not. Reduce to 375°F after 10 minutes





Fruit filling with high water content such as blueberries, blackberries, cherries. This formula was devised by pastry chef Stella Parks. And it works every time. with the sugar you can go as high as 30%. It’s based in science and it works trust me it works if you don’t want to run he saw the pie use this formula.



Weight of the fruit

Sugar 25% weight of fruit

Tapioca starch 5% weight of fruit



For apple pie - Use a tart apple. A sweet apple simple breaks now during baking, and you are left with the huge gap in your pie. I like spices. you can adjust spices to your taste. But the sugar and tapioca starch should stay according to the apple weight ratio.



Melt butter in large sauté pan over medium high heat. Toss apples, lemon juice and spices together. Cook apples until slightly tender, about 5 to 8 minutes. Do not over cook.

• 2 Tablespoons unsalted butter
• 1590g (3.5 lbs) tart apple like granny smith, peeled, sliced no more than 1/2” thick.
• 170g (3/4 cup) mix of brown and granulated sugars (12% weight of the apples)
• 24ml (approx. 5 teaspoons) lemon juice .015%
• 1 1/2 teaspoons Saigon cinnamon
• 1/2 teaspoon ginger
• 1/4 teaspoon freshly ground nutmeg
• 1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
• pinch fine salt

Stir in tapioca starch after apples are removed from heat.

• 20g tapioca starch (approximately 2 Tablespoon) Bob’s Red Mill is the preferred brand. It is now labelled Tapioca Flour for some reason.

NOTE: Cool filling before filling pie shell.



Estimating apples without a scale:

• a medium apple is about the size of a tennis ball
• 3 medium apples is about 1 lb (454 g)

Note on cinnamon: Saigon cinnamon is prized for its robust flavor. It is the cinnamon of choice for pastry chefs. It is more expensive and is always labelled as such. But it is not what Americans normally buy in the grocery store, so may not be what you are used to in terms of cinnamon flavor. For a more subtle flavor, use Ceylon cinnamon, the cinnamon that is sold in the grocery store. Ceylon is not normally labelled as Ceylon, but simply the generic cinnamon.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

One thing I think wasn’t in that post, brush the top of the crust with an egg wash. Egg wash is just an egg beaten with a tablespoon of water or milk. I use water. Then sprinkle with coarse decorating sugar. You can use raw sugar. If you do not egg wash you won‘t get that nice golden brown


crust is blinded baked with no egg wash. While it will get a bit darker in the final bake, it will not take on that rich golden color. For lighter pies like banana cream or chocolate chiffon, I like the crust without a wash.

These two crusts were egg washed. note the richer color from the egg wash. The handpie is a savory meat pie.

For a heavy custard pie like pumpkin, definitely like an egg wash