Separation of the thin bottom of the cake after baking

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Hello
Why is it that after a cake is baked, the bottom very thin layer of 1-2mm separates from the rest?
This happens on most surfaces.
Also, it does not rise evenly. In some places air builds up under the dough and causes a bulge.
In some places, gas accumulates under the top part of the dough more than elsewhere.
The dough is well mixed with a mixer (food processor).
The dough consists of wheat and rye flour, sugar, caramel, soda (raising agent), spices, potato flour, salt, citric acid and water.

Is this related to the baking temperature, to the amount of water, or perhaps to the order of the ingredients?

Regards
Theofilos
 

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cake and dough aren't 2 words that belong together , just a guess but I'd say ,,
the absence of any fat or oil.

the recipe looks more like irish soda bread, that requires very light mixing by hand.
 
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Thank you very much for your reply.

At the baking stage, when the dough hasn't been baked yet, gases accumulate underneath it, causing the cake to bulge.
After baking, the cake remains uneven, with visible bulges.
Additionally, after baking, the thin bottom layer of the cake tends to separate from the rest.

There is not supposed to be oil there.

I created the recipe myself based on the ingredients and nutritional table of gingerbread produced for about 250 years by a well-known manufacturer.
I wanted to make something like this myself at home.
On the package is
Ingredients: wheat flour, sugar, rye flour, colour (caramel), raising agent (ammonium carbonates), spices 0,7%, potato starch, salt, acidity regulator (citric acid)

The ingredients, as you know, are listed in descending order.

Nutrition value:
Energy – 349 kcal
Fat – 1,0 g
- of which saturates – 0,3 g
Carbohydrate – 76 g
- of which sugars – 32 g
Protein – 6,2 g
Salt – 0,13 g

Is it just down to the mixing that the bottom separates?
The cake is also less fluffy, it melts less in the mouth than the original one.
Where am I making a mistake?
 
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To clarify, it is about gingerbread cookies. That is, the original ones are gingerbread cookies.
I, on the other hand, made a cake about 0.8 cm thick on a baking tray.
 

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Rather than convert a cookie recipe I'd find it simpler to adjust a cake recipe,
Yorkshire Parkin Cake would be a candidate for ginger cake.
It would be easy to adjust the recipe.


 
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I just wanted to make just such gingerbread cookies - like the original ones.
For two reasons. Firstly, they taste good to me and my family. Secondly, they have no fat and no eggs.
Maybe the third reason is that their price is about 10x the price of the ingredients.

Based on the ingredients and nutritional table, I have crafted a recipe

wheat flour 350 g
sugar 260 g
rye flour 250 g
caramel made with 30 g sugar
sodium carbonate 12.5 g
gingerbread spice 40 g - of which 20 g sugar
potato starch 21 g
salt 3 g
water 2.5 cups (500 ml)

I've baked at both 180°C and 160°C, but this hasn't changed the fact that the bottom of the cake is peeling off and bulges are forming.
I've also added more and less water, the batter has been thicker or thinner, but not much has changed.
It's also not as melt-in-the-mouth as the original gingerbread cakes.

Maybe the dough is too pourable or too dense.
Maybe it needs to be divided into smaller pieces - like cookies, rather than in one piece on the whole baking tray.
 
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I just wanted to make just such gingerbread cookies - like the original ones.
For two reasons. Firstly, they taste good to me and my family. Secondly, they have no fat and no eggs.
Maybe the third reason is that their price is about 10x the price of the ingredients.

Based on the ingredients and nutritional table, I have crafted a recipe

wheat flour 350 g
sugar 260 g
rye flour 250 g
caramel made with 30 g sugar
sodium carbonate 12.5 g
gingerbread spice 40 g - of which 20 g sugar
potato starch 21 g
salt 3 g
water 2.5 cups (500 ml)

I've baked at both 180°C and 160°C, but this hasn't changed the fact that the bottom of the cake is peeling off and bulges are forming.
I've also added more and less water, the batter has been thicker or thinner, but not much has changed.
It's also not as melt-in-the-mouth as the original gingerbread cakes.

Maybe the dough is too pourable or too dense.
Maybe it needs to be divided into smaller pieces - like cookies, rather than in one piece on the whole baking tray.

To receive more helpful responses, it can be useful to clarify the specific product you’re hoping to replicate. The ingredient list you provided could apply to a number of different ginger cookies, and referring to it as a “cake” only add to the confusion. Cakes are typically made from a batter, which has a high liquid-to-flour ratio—but the package ingredients list doesn’t include any liquids, not even eggs, which suggests this is not actually a cake.

One helpful detail is the inclusion of rye flour, which points toward a traditional German-style gingerbread cookie. Rye is often used in European gingerbread recipes, especially those from Germany and surrounding regions.

By identifying the product and including a bit more detail—such as the cookie’s texture, shape, and flavor—others might be able to offer more specific and useful suggestions.
 
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Thank you very much for your reply.

The composition of the gingerbread biscuits does not include liquids, because presumably the manufacturer uses water for them.
As you probably know - according to the rules of composition description - water is not indicated on the packaging.
I do not know whether I can give the manufacturer's brand name or the name of the gingerbread biscuits here.

The biscuits are quite compact (not loose), but they are not hard. They melt properly in the mouth.
Mine are either malleable or very compact - dense.
The shape is as shown in the picture.
The flavour is spicy. They probably contain cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, coriander, cardamom.
Pierniczek.jpg
 
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Thank you very much for your reply.

The composition of the gingerbread biscuits does not include liquids, because presumably the manufacturer uses water for them.
As you probably know - according to the rules of composition description - water is not indicated on the packaging.
I do not know whether I can give the manufacturer's brand name or the name of the gingerbread biscuits here.

The biscuits are quite compact (not loose), but they are not hard. They melt properly in the mouth.
Mine are either malleable or very compact - dense.
The shape is as shown in the picture.
The flavour is spicy. They probably contain cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, coriander, cardamom.View attachment 5046

I’ve been a member of this forum for a number of years, and discussing manufacturers and their products is not a problem. It's quite common for home bakers to try to replicate their favorite commercially produced food items. This practice is neither illegal nor discouraged. Manufacturers have access to equipment and ingredients that aren't available to the retail market, making it impossible to achieve an exact replica in a home kitchen. But “copycat” recipes are still commonplace.

FYI, in the US, water as an ingredient must be indicated on the label.
 
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Here’s a recipe that can help you understand the ratios involved. If you prefer not to use an egg as the liquid binder, you can substitute it with a combination of starch and water. However, keep in mind that this result in a significantly different taste and texture, as commercially produced cookie dough is specifically formulated for machine production, not for home mixing and baking.


 
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I may not have written quite precisely. According to Regulation 1169/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council, if there is no more than 5% water in the finished product, it can be omitted.

What equipment can be used to obtain cakes in which the bottom will not separate, no bulges will form and they will be more melt-in-the-mouth?
I have access to all the ingredients that the manufacturer uses.

Yes, these are ‘Katarzynki’ from Toruń.

However, the proposed recipe is not for ‘Katarzynki’.
‘Katarzynki’ is a brand of “Kopernik” from Toruń.
They do not use honey, fat and eggs.

Gingerbread cakes with these ingredients I can make, but that is not the point.

The question is, what is the reason for the bottom of the cakes to separate and what can be done to make them more melt-in-the-mouth, with the ingredients the manufacturer uses?
 
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I may not have written quite precisely. According to Regulation 1169/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council, if there is no more than 5% water in the finished product, it can be omitted.

What equipment can be used to obtain cakes in which the bottom will not separate, no bulges will form and they will be more melt-in-the-mouth?
I have access to all the ingredients that the manufacturer uses.

Yes, these are ‘Katarzynki’ from Toruń.

However, the proposed recipe is not for ‘Katarzynki’.
‘Katarzynki’ is a brand of “Kopernik” from Toruń.
They do not use honey, fat and eggs.

Gingerbread cakes with these ingredients I can make, but that is not the point.

The question is, what is the reason for the bottom of the cakes to separate and what can be done to make them more melt-in-the-mouth, with the ingredients the manufacturer uses?

The idea that we can perfectly recreate a product just by looking at the package ingredients list is understandable, but it overlooks how complex commercial baking really is.

Unfortunately, the reality is you don't have access to the formula, methods, and equipment used in the production of this cookie.

While you can try to create a version at home that captures some of the flavor and character of a commercial or traditional product, it’s impossible to create an exact match due to differences in formulation, method, and equipment. Hence the reason I recommend the home recipe.

Mass-produced cookies are typically formulated for maximum efficiency in large-scale manufacturing and to minimize cost. Ingredients like eggs—which provide fat, moisture, and binding—are often replaced with more economical alternatives such as water and potato starch.

Replicating a commercial cookie exactly at home is impossible for several reasons. First, the ingredients used in industrial baking differ significantly from those available at retail. For instance, commercial starches are tailored for specific food applications, with plant varieties selected based on their functional properties. The exact type of potato starch used, as well as how it’s hydrated and in what ratio, is not something home bakers can determine.

Second, the mixing process and preparation method are unknown. Traditional products like gingerbread often rely on techniques such as dough aging or fermentation to develop flavor. The duration and conditions of this aging process—temperature, humidity, and time—are never disclosed and can vary widely. Some gingerbread doughs, for example, are fermented for several weeks.

Third, commercial ovens are fundamentally different from home ovens. They operate at higher temperatures, circulate heat more efficiently, and often have specialized features like steam injection and venting. These capabilities have a significant impact on the final texture, color, and structure of baked goods. In some traditional methods, baking is done in wood-fired ovens, adding another layer of complexity.
 
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I know I don't 'have access to the formula, methods, and equipment used in the production of this cookie', so I'm asking what could be the reason for these symptoms I've written about.

The taste of the gingerbread is fine. The problem is with the texture. The bottom comes off in the baked dough and it is too compact (dense) and does not melt in the mouth.

Maybe I should actually buy potato starch. I was currently using potato flour and it is not the same. Thank you very much for the tips.

It's interesting what you write about the gingerbread dough standing for several weeks before being baked.
They are not on sourdough, but on sodium or ammonium carbonate.

I think I also took too much water, because the weight of the products with water was, for example, 1250 g, and after baking it was 1150 g.
So the water in the finished product is 13%, and it should be no more than 5%, since they don't list it in the ingredients.

One more thing.
This recipe has supposedly been unchanged for about 250 years.
My guess is that the machinery and product so many years ago were not that advanced and sophisticated. They could probably have been close to what an ordinary person has access to at home.
 
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I know I don't 'have access to the formula, methods, and equipment used in the production of this cookie', so I'm asking what could be the reason for these symptoms I've written about.

The taste of the gingerbread is fine. The problem is with the texture. The bottom comes off in the baked dough and it is too compact (dense) and does not melt in the mouth.

Maybe I should actually buy potato starch. I was currently using potato flour and it is not the same. Thank you very much for the tips.

It's interesting what you write about the gingerbread dough standing for several weeks before being baked.
They are not on sourdough, but on sodium or ammonium carbonate.

I think I also took too much water, because the weight of the products with water was, for example, 1250 g, and after baking it was 1150 g.
So the water in the finished product is 13%, and it should be no more than 5%, since they don't list it in the ingredients.

One more thing.
This recipe has supposedly been unchanged for about 250 years.
My guess is that the machinery and product so many years ago were not that advanced and sophisticated. They could probably have been close to what an ordinary person has access to at home.


Given the ingredients list it is unlikely the recipe has remained completely unchanged for 250 years. For example, citric acid wasn’t commercially produced until 1919 —144 years after the company was founded. Similarly, “colour (caramel)” didn’t see industrial use until the 19th century, beginning in the brewing industry to give beer a deeper color.

Unfortunately, the separating dough is anyone’s guess given the possible contributing factors: the formula ratios are off, the mixing technique wrong, excessive leavening, incorrect hydration level, baking temperature, or even a combination of these. The list of ingredients is a reflection of a commercial formula and process, so it cannnot be reverse engineered into a home recipe and proccess.

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) plays multiple roles in baking beyond leavening. It helps reduce acidity, which is especially important in fermented doughs that naturally become more acidic over time. It also affects color development—this is why it’s used in a variety of food applications beyond baking, like as a color enhancers in caramel candy production. It also contributes to a tender texture by preventing the dough from becoming tough or chewy. So its inclusion is not an indicator of leavening.

It’s completely understandable to associate fermentation with sourdough, since that’s where many of us first encounter the concept. But fermentation isn’t just about leavening—it’s primarily used to develop flavor and improve texture. For example, I bake sourdough bread several times a week and always do a long, cold fermentation overnight. Once the dough goes into the refrigerator, it stops rising—and that’s exactly what I want. The purpose of that 12-hour fermentation isn’t to create more lift; it’s to build depth of flavor and a better crumb.

Both German and Polish gingerbread traditionally involve fermentation for flavor, texture, and color. You can find more on this by searching terms like:

• “Polish Toruń gingerbread fermentation”


• “German and Polish tradition of gingerbread fermented dough”


Lastly, just a bit of clarification on a couple of the ingredients. Potato starch is not the same as potato flour and caramel coloring is not the same ascaramelized sugar.

Potato starch is starch extracted from potatoes, while potato flour is made from dried whole potatoes. The cannot be used interchangeably.

The characteristics of any starch depends on the variety of plant used. Each variety of potato will produce a unquie potato starch.

It's important to understand that retail starches differ from those produced commercially. This video linked below demonstrates the different characteristics of different starches, even those from the same plant source.




Colour (caramel) is a water suspension food color, not caramelized sugar. You can read more about caramel color from the link below. The sugar source for caramel color can come from a variety of different plants, so it is not table sugar. A water based food color can change the texture of a dough or batter since it adds water. I don’t know how you’re adding caramelized sugar to your dough as an ingredient in place of caramel color. But sugar has more functions than just sweetening. So additional sugar can effect the texture since even caramelized, sugar retains its hygroscopic properties.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramel_color
 
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Since the procedure was changed, it means that the manufacturer is writing untruths. On the packaging it says in Polish - ‘Original recipe since 1763’.

It is a pity that it is not possible to determine what is the cause of the bottom of the baked cake separating from the rest, even when I have given the quantity composition and the method of making it.

Maybe I need to add more baking soda, because in my case the baked gingerbread pulls a bit and just feels harder - more compact (compact) than the original.

It's interesting what you write about fermentation. I didn't know about that.

I typed into google: Polish Torun gingerbread fermentation (without the inverted commas)
Most of the links do not contain the word ‘fermentation’ at all.
Those that do contain it are not about Toruń gingerbread.

I typed into google: ‘Polish Toruń gingerbread fermentation’ (in inverted commas) it found nothing.

I typed in google: ‘Polish’ ’Toruń’ ‘gingerbread’ “fermentation” (every word in inverted commas)

I found nothing in the links on the first page about fermentation of the dough for Toruń gingerbread.

I typed into google: German and Polish tradition of gingerbread fermented dough, but the results relate firstly rather to German baked goods, and furthermore do not refer to the fermentation of the dough of Toruń gingerbreads.

The page provided says that caramel ‘is made by heat treatment of carbohydrates (sugars)’.
I understand that carbohydrates are not just the sugar we have in our kitchen, but I guess it can be assumed that way.

I make the caramel colouring as follows.
I dissolve 30 g of sugar in a pan.
It becomes brown and runny.
I pour it into a glass where I have half the water.
The caramel hardens, of course.
I stir until it dissolves.
I pour into the bowl with the water containing the other ingredients (sugar, baking soda, etc.).
 
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Since the procedure was changed, it means that the manufacturer is writing untruths. On the packaging it says in Polish - ‘Original recipe since 1763’.

It is a pity that it is not possible to determine what is the cause of the bottom of the baked cake separating from the rest, even when I have given the quantity composition and the method of making it.

Maybe I need to add more baking soda, because in my case the baked gingerbread pulls a bit and just feels harder - more compact (compact) than the original.

It's interesting what you write about fermentation. I didn't know about that.

I typed into google: Polish Torun gingerbread fermentation (without the inverted commas)
Most of the links do not contain the word ‘fermentation’ at all.
Those that do contain it are not about Toruń gingerbread.

I typed into google: ‘Polish Toruń gingerbread fermentation’ (in inverted commas) it found nothing.

I typed in google: ‘Polish’ ’Toruń’ ‘gingerbread’ “fermentation” (every word in inverted commas)

I found nothing in the links on the first page about fermentation of the dough for Toruń gingerbread.

I typed into google: German and Polish tradition of gingerbread fermented dough, but the results relate firstly rather to German baked goods, and furthermore do not refer to the fermentation of the dough of Toruń gingerbreads.

The page provided says that caramel ‘is made by heat treatment of carbohydrates (sugars)’.
I understand that carbohydrates are not just the sugar we have in our kitchen, but I guess it can be assumed that way.

I make the caramel colouring as follows.
I dissolve 30 g of sugar in a pan.
It becomes brown and runny.
I pour it into a glass where I have half the water.
The caramel hardens, of course.
I stir until it dissolves.
I pour into the bowl with the water containing the other ingredients (sugar, baking soda, etc.).

Regarding caramel coloring: You’re caramelizing sugar—not making caramel coloring. Caramelized sugar and caramel coloring are not the same. Caramel coloring is a water-based food dye, while caramelized sugar results from cooking sugar to develop flavor and color through heat.



Regarding the manufacturer misrepresenting their product as the original recipe: Yes, they are misrepresenting it. The links below reference both the traditional fermentation of gingerbread dough and the evolution of its ingredients over time. In the first article, Kopernik acknowledges removing honey—a historically essential ingredient—from their recipe due to cost concerns.



“Kopernik sells a variety of pierniki, although most of its cookies are no longer made with honey because of the expense. At the factory, gingerbread masters still guard the secret spice mix and decide when to use the dough, which is stored in large metal bins, where it’s aged for up to a year.”



https://www.dispatch.com/story/lifestyle/food/2016/12/19/polish-city-torun-known-as/22751032007/





“At the factory, gingerbread masters still guard the secret spice mix and decide when to use the dough, which is stored in large metal bins, where it’s aged for up to a year.”



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/dining/gingerbread-pierniki-torun-poland.html





“Carefully protected recipes that call for the use of only the highest quality ingredients as well as specific techniques for kneading and aging the dough are the secret behind this unique sweet that continues to delight Toruń locals,..”



https://www.polana.com/blogs/blog/p...X1WSvx1O8qAtJoIkL6JOqzWtXIEO8i0xP8SW-J-KOSak7





“Two master bakers dressed in white use a long knife to carve a heavy, thick slab of molasses-coloured gingerbread dough out of a huge metal vat, where, like wine, it has been maturing for a few months, deep in the cellar of one of the world's oldest bakeries.”



"Like fine wine, good gingerbread must be aged and like wine making, the process requires a lot of know-how," he adds.



https://www.thejakartapost.com/life...-the-ancient-luxury-with-a-secret-recipe.html.



“Traditional pierniki dough is aged for days or even weeks, ...”



https://www.witf.org/2025/03/14/chr...olish-gingerbread-cookies-with-honey-and-rye/


more information on the history of Polish gingerbread

https://muzeumpiernika.pl/en/gingerbreads
 
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Thank you very much.

This link
is a journalistic text.
There are some quotes from people associated with the producer.
To what extent they are true is difficult to say, as there is no way to verify.
The sentence ‘ Traditionally, the soda or leavening agent would have been kneaded in at the end is interesting.’
It is known that the dough is dense, so if a leavening agent is added at the end, it will not mix evenly.

This link
is basically the same as above.

This link
is a journalistic extract from the above.

Regarding this link
https://www.thejakartapost.com/life...-the-ancient-luxury-with-a-secret-recipe.html.

Interesting, gingerbread cakes only bake for 7 mins.

‘ Torun gingerbread is chewy and meaty.’ I wouldn't say they are chewy.

Also, there are considerable discrepancies, as some say the dough matures for days and others say up to a year.

This link
is no longer about Toruń's gingerbread.

Here
https://muzeumpiernika.pl/en/gingerbreads
there is a story without citing sources, but I did not notice that they wrote that the recipe had changed.
 
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Thank you very much.

This link
is a journalistic text.
There are some quotes from people associated with the producer.
To what extent they are true is difficult to say, as there is no way to verify.
The sentence ‘ Traditionally, the soda or leavening agent would have been kneaded in at the end is interesting.’
It is known that the dough is dense, so if a leavening agent is added at the end, it will not mix evenly.

This link
is basically the same as above.

This link
is a journalistic extract from the above.

Regarding this link
https://www.thejakartapost.com/life...-the-ancient-luxury-with-a-secret-recipe.html.

Interesting, gingerbread cakes only bake for 7 mins.

‘ Torun gingerbread is chewy and meaty.’ I wouldn't say they are chewy.

Also, there are considerable discrepancies, as some say the dough matures for days and others say up to a year.

This link
is no longer about Toruń's gingerbread.

Here
https://muzeumpiernika.pl/en/gingerbreads
there is a story without citing sources, but I did not notice that they wrote that the recipe had changed.

So, have you finally made peace with the fact that today’s “traditional old-world gingerbread” is really just an ultra-processed ginger biscuit in vintage costume?

Even if they threw in a few historic-sounding ingredients for flair, it’s still not 18th-century gingerbread. The Industrial Revolution gave us roller-milled flour, refined sugar, artificial colors, bargain-bin starch fillers, and preservatives like citric acid—all the things our great-great grandmothers definitely didn’t use. Time and invention has changed what and how we eat.
 
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I have realised that ‘Kopernik’ is misleading consumers - informing them of an original recipe from 250 years ago, when the recipe is not.
Such action is against the law.

Thank you very much for any clarification and guidance.

Basically, I was concerned with identifying the reasons for the bottom part of the baked gingerbread coming off and the bulges forming.
Well, but if there are too many potential causes to determine that, then tough.
 

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I have realised that ‘Kopernik’ is misleading consumers - informing them of an original recipe from 250 years ago, when the recipe is not.
Such action is against the law.

Thank you very much for any clarification and guidance.

Basically, I was concerned with identifying the reasons for the bottom part of the baked gingerbread coming off and the bulges forming.
Well, but if there are too many potential causes to determine that, then tough.
Its easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.

The photo is just a cookie like a million other cookies out there.
The reason yours are failing is because an ingredient list isn't a recipe.
 

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