To moist of a cake!


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Ok I made a raspberry lemon cake for my daughter’s bday today. I was careful not to over mix my ingredients (as I tend to do that) I coated my raspberries in flour sprayed the pans down and though the cake was a bit more moist than I’d like and didn’t rise the way I wanted it to it’s a good cake, I lost 1 layer because if refused to get out of the pan. So we ate it! (So delicious) but my cake was really to moist and didn’t rise like I wanted, help! Here is the link to the recipe https://pin.it/1lKHrmK
Help because I am doing a cake tasting with the cake soon for a wedding I need to know where I went wrong so it turns out better
 

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Cup recipes are always rubbish! They’re so subjective I’m the sense that everyone has a different way of measuring out their ingredients.

dry ingredients aren’t so bad but when you’re measuring things like butter in tablespoons it would be very very easy for two people to achieve very different results.

I’ve baked several recipes with yogurt and I do find that at time’s it can overly moisten a cake but I have no way around this sorry. If you have time, perhaps you could try using slightly less and see how this helps?
 
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Yes I’ve read the using a scale is much more accurate but I haven’t drummed up enough business to justify a scale. I’ll be making this cake again and messing with the amounts and also how long I mix it for maybe I didn’t mix it enough to get the gluten buildup ‍♀
 
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Yes I’ve read the using a scale is much more accurate but I haven’t drummed up enough business to justify a scale. I’ll be making this cake again and messing with the amounts and also how long I mix it for maybe I didn’t mix it enough to get the gluten buildup ‍♀
It’s not just the accuracy of measurement but recipes are developed on some thing called baker’s percentages.

Baking is a chemical reaction of all the ingredients to time and temperature. So a recipe is developed on the ratio of ingredients based on the weight of the flour.

The flour is always 100%.

All of the other ingredients are weighed against the weight of the flour.

The an ingredient might w more than the flour, but it is still weighed against the weight of the flour.

For example, my chiffon cake recipe calls for 210g cake flour and 241g baker’s sugar.

The baker’s percentages are flour 100% and sugar 115%.

When you add the raspberries to the batter you actually change the bakers percentages because the raspberries have a significant amount of water in them. When the raspberries cook, they burst and release their water into the batter. The flour in your cake recipe was not formulated to account for all that extra water.

When adding fruit directly to a batter you should either use freeze dried fruit or reduce the liquid in your batter to adjust for the water in the raspberries. But the only way you can reduce the liquid properly in your batter is to scale the baker’s percentages. And that means buying a scale.
 
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It’s not just the accuracy of measurement but recipes are developed on some thing called baker’s percentages.

Baking is a chemical reaction of all the ingredients to time and temperature. So a recipe is developed on the ratio of ingredients based on the weight of the flour.

The flour is always 100%.

All of the other ingredients are weighed against the weight of the flour.

The an ingredient might w more than the flour, but it is still weighed against the weight of the flour.

For example, my chiffon cake recipe calls for 210g cake flour and 241g baker’s sugar.

The baker’s percentages are flour 100% and sugar 115%.

When you add the raspberries to the batter you actually change the bakers percentages because the raspberries have a significant amount of water in them. When the raspberries cook, they burst and release their water into the batter. The flour in your cake recipe was not formulated to account for all that extra water.

When adding fruit directly to a batter you should either use freeze dried fruit or reduce the liquid in your batter to adjust for the water in the raspberries. But the only way you can reduce the liquid properly in your batter is to scale the baker’s percentages. And that means buying a scale.
I was going to say this! But didn’t know how to explain it properly. Would adding more flour offset some of the moisture from the fruit?

One question I’ve been dying to get answered is with regards to mixing. Some recipes for say chocolate cake, require you to mix for 1 minute after addition of the flour but others stare that you should gently fold the flour in and the STOP to avoid developing the gluten..

Any advice of this please!? Can’t seem to find much online.
 
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I was going to say this! But didn’t know how to explain it properly. Would adding more flour offset some of the moisture from the fruit?

One question I’ve been dying to get answered is with regards to mixing. Some recipes for say chocolate cake, require you to mix for 1 minute after addition of the flour but others stare that you should gently fold the flour in and the STOP to avoid developing the gluten..

Any advice of this please!? Can’t seem to find much online.

This is a muffin recipe, but I’ll use it as an example.


If you increase the flour, you change all the ratios. This also illustrates why you cannot knead doughs with flour and why you should use as little flour as possible when rolling dough.
Ingredients Baker’s percentagesincreasing flour changes all ratiosBaker’s % change if you increase flour
300g flour100%increase 400g100%
14g baking powder4.6%3.5%
7g baking soda2.3%1.75%
2g salt.67%.50%
113g unsalted butter, melted and cooled38%.28%
200g sugar66.6%50%
100g eggs33.3%25%
240ml buttermilk or whole milk80%60%
15g vanilla extract5%12.5%
200g blueberries (fresh or frozen)66.6%50%



If you decrease the liquid, the ratios remain the same except for the liquid. Then the water in the raspberries will adjust for the reduction in the liquid.
Ingredients Baker’s percentagesdecreasing liquid does not change ratiosBaker’s % remain same except for liquid
300g flour100%100%
14g baking powder4.6%4.6%
7g baking soda2.3%2.3%
2g salt.67%.67%
113g unsalted butter38%38%
200g sugar66.6%66.6%
100g eggs33.3%33.3%
240ml buttermilk 80%decrease 180 ml (-25%)60%
15g vanilla extract5%5%
200g blueberries (fresh or frozen)66.6%66.6%


Gluten cannot tell the difference between a chocolate cake and a vanilla cake. I swear, I don’t know where people come up with this stuff. :D

How the cake is mixed depends on if it is a shorten cake or a foam cake.

There are various types of foam cake, so the mixing methods will depend on the type of cake. Folding in the eggs may take a minute or more depending on the amount of batter.

If you do reverse creaming, you will be mixing more than a minute because that is standard with reverse creaming. The egg is mixed in two addition for 30 seconds, then the batter mixed an additional 30 seconds. For a standard butter cake, flour and liquid and mixed in alternately. So as soon as the process is complete, you stop mixing. So I am not sure where people even come up with these general proclamations on mixing since they don’t even apply to anything.

Of course nothing is chiseled in stone. Bakers are free to do mix as they please. But for foam cakes, you don’t want to deviate much because the failure to follow the technique means the difference between a tall beautiful cake and a totally collapsed pile of goo.
 
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A pile of goo! I have a scale purchased and I am trying to stick with recipes that have grams listed so I know what I’m getting. Thank you for the conversions.
My question to you would be on average after you have creamed your liquid ingredients together and start to add in the dry ingredients do you have an amount of time you mix for? I folded in the dry last time to the point of just mixed but not more than 1-2 minutes if I had to put a time on it, but would using my whisk attachment on my mixer be better?
I have only made a few cakes from total scratch so I am learning, but since I am trying to take my talent into a occasional side business I need to pastry know it all to guide me!
Also when you make buttercream if it’s to runny how to you get that firm fluffy texture without it being overly sweet?
 
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A pile of goo! I have a scale purchased and I am trying to stick with recipes that have grams listed so I know what I’m getting. Thank you for the conversions.
My question to you would be on average after you have creamed your liquid ingredients together and start to add in the dry ingredients do you have an amount of time you mix for? I folded in the dry last time to the point of just mixed but not more than 1-2 minutes if I had to put a time on it, but would using my whisk attachment on my mixer be better?
I have only made a few cakes from total scratch so I am learning, but since I am trying to take my talent into a occasional side business I need to pastry know it all to guide me!
Also when you make buttercream if it’s to runny how to you get that firm fluffy texture without it being overly sweet?

No use a paddle attachment. And the reason you use the paddle attachment is creaming butter and sugar is not about mixing the sugar into the butter. It’s more than that.



The process of creaming butter and sugar is actually for leavening. The sugar crystals cuts through the butter and create cuts in the butter. A whisk won’t push the sugar crystals through the butter.



When the chemical leavening (baking powder and/or baking soda) activates, the air bubbles will get trapped in the cuts in the butter. The butter needs to be a certain temperature in order to expand those air pockets.



As the butter expands, it makes the batter rise. when the butter reaches a certain temperature it will melt. But by then, the flour will have reached a certain temperature to trigger starch gelatinization. So the structure will hold.



But the starting temperature of your butter before you begin to cream is key. Beating the butter causes friction. Friction causes heat. So your butter should be 65°F or colder. See the link below on the correct way to cream butter and sugar. This applies to cake as well as cookies.



You need to recognize how butter changes when you cream it.



The quality of your butter is also very important. Not all butter is the same. Store brand and regular American butter has less butter fat, about 80%. European style butters have 83% –86%. And it makes a huge difference in the quality of your cake and cookies.



If you live in the US, the best prices for Plugra, An American made butter, but European style with 83% butterfat is Walmart. It costs about the same as Land’OLakes, but is far better. Walmart also has the best prices from Kerrygold. The only American butter I will ever use is LandOLakes. And that is very rare and the only thing I’ll ever use it in is a cookie dough.













https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/12/cookie-science-creaming-butter-sugar.html





Where I differ from Stella Parks:



  1. I never use anodized aluminum ever!! It’s conducts too much heat. It creates a brown crust and dries out the cake. I use uncoated metal. My pan of choice is Chicago Metallic Commercial II uncoated
  2. I use cloth baking strips my cake pans. This insulates the cake from excessive heat. The cake bake evenly so it is level. No dry crust develops
  3. I bake at 325°F (170°C). 350°F is just too hot for cake. It is with rare exception that I ever bake at 350°F. The only cakes I Baking the temperature are really heavy dense cakes like carrot cake.




I’ve never used this recipe so I cannot vouch for it. I link it here just so that you can see what the correct mixing process for creaming butter and sugar, using the CORRECT temperature of butter.



Note the use of paddle attachment.



After you have creamed the butter and sugar it doesn’t matter when you start adding the flour.



There is no gluten in flour. Flour only contains two proteins: glutenin and gliadin. They require a water molecule to bind and form gluten.



So the butter and sugar in the bowl, the liquids in a separate bowl are all just sitting there; nothing will happen until the flour is mixed in. Once the flour is added the glutenin and gliadin will bind with water molecules in the butter and gluten will develop. That’s when you have to become more aware of time and mixing.



https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2017/05/classic-vanilla-butter-cake-recipe.html
 
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@Kad1117
Regarding buttercream. There’s so many types of “buttercream”, some of which don’t even contain butter.

Swiss meringue buttercream

Italian meringue buttercream

American buttercream
  • Powdered sugarbutter
  • Powdered sugar, butter, and shortening
  • Powdered sugar and shortening

Personally I don’t like American buttercreams. I never use them because they are greasy and cloyingly sweet. Nobody likes them. People just scrape the icing off. It’s just a waste.

I use the meringue buttercream and mascarpone chantilly.

But to stabilize an American buttercream use meringue powder.

 
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@Kad1117
Regarding buttercream. There’s so many types of “buttercream”, some of which don’t even contain butter.

Swiss meringue buttercream

Italian meringue buttercream

American buttercream
  • Powdered sugarbutter
  • Powdered sugar, butter, and shortening
  • Powdered sugar and shortening

Personally I don’t like American buttercreams. I never use them because they are greasy and cloyingly sweet. Nobody likes them. People just scrape the icing off. It’s just a waste.

I use the meringue buttercream and mascarpone chantilly.

But to stabilize an American buttercream use meringue powder.

Meringue powder!!!!!!

I spent quite a bit ordering this because I guessed I could use it for stabilisation but it’s very difficult to find a recipe that uses this so I’ve still not managed it!

Whay I’m gathering from the above is that folding the flour in is best for as little time as possible?

Thanks for the great advice!
 
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Meringue powder!!!!!!

I spent quite a bit ordering this because I guessed I could use it for stabilisation but it’s very difficult to find a recipe that uses this so I’ve still not managed it!

Whay I’m gathering from the above is that folding the flour in is best for as little time as possible?

Thanks for the great advice!
Yes, you don’t want to over mix your cake batter.
 
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Have you looked at Pinterest for Meringue power specific recipes? That is one of my main go to places for new recipes. I even mix and match some of my recipes into what I want the flavor profiles to be. At some point I’ll just have to have the recipes on hand in a file!

also look up a couple comments the King Arthur flour recipe requires Meringue powder
 

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