Working temperature of the sourdough and its rise in volume

[Theofilos]

Hello

At what temperature should a rye flour sourdough starter ferment?

By what percentage should the sourdough starter increase in volume when it has risen and is ready to use?

How much more volume will it have compared to the original volume of the ingredients (water and flour)?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hello

At what temperature should a rye flour sourdough starter ferment?

By what percentage should the sourdough starter increase in volume when it has risen and is ready to use?

How much more volume will it have compared to the original volume of the ingredients (water and flour)?

Fermentation temperature depends on the inoculation, amount of starter carried over relative to the flour and water used in feeding. A higher inoculation speeds up fermentation, while a lower inoculation slows it down.


Common Feeding Ratios

1:1:1
Fermentation time is about 1 to 1½ hours. Produces no real sour flavor. This ratio is a fast rise more suitable for preferments.


1:2:2
Fermentation time is about 2 to 4 hours. Flavor is very mild.


1:3:3
Fermentation time is about 5 to 8 hours. Flavor ranges from very mild to mild.


1:4:4
Fermentation time is about 8 to 10 hours. Flavor is mildly sour. Best for overnight builds or longer same-day fermentations.


1:5:5
Fermentation time is about 10 to 12 hours. Flavor ranges from mild to a more pronounced sourdough flavor.



Temperature Ranges

Below 70°F (21°C)
Fermentation slows down, increasing total fermentation time. Cooler temperatures give enzymes and bacteria more time to develop sugars, acids, and aroma, leading to more complex flavors. I personally keep my starter at 62°F and feed once every 24 hours. I never use the starter directly in dough. Instead, I mix a levain so I can adjust both the levain mass and inoculation based on the dough type.

72°F to 74°F
Slightly cooler range that increases fermentation time and flavor complexity.


74°F to 76°F
Common temperature range for maintaining a starter. A starter fed at 1:4:4 or 1:5:5 can ferment for about 12 hours at these temperatures.


Rye flour is more nutrient dense than wheat flour, so fermentation occurs faster, especially when using a higher inoculation.


A healthy starter can typically triple in volume at peak activity, though excessive feeding or inoculation can overwhelm the balance of yeast and bacteria. I use low form lab beakers printed with graduated scales for easy tracking of rise. I fed my starter last night around 10:00 pm. This is about 13 hours in and it’s tripled in size. It’s near peak and will hold here until I mix two levains with it tonight. Depending on my bake schedule I will increase the temperature of the starter. But of late I have maintained it at the lower temperature. I am not fond of a liquid starter, so I don’t use the common ratios that I listed above. I keep a slightly stiffer starter with 80% water. The levains will be placed in my incubator at 74°F for 12 hours given the cool night temperatures. But during the summer, I just leave the levain on the counter overnight.

 

[Theofilos]

Thank you very much for your response and the guidance.
Something is not working with my recipe.

I used whole rye flour (type 2000).
The room temperature was 68–70°F (20–21°C).

I mixed 100 g of flour with 150 ml of water.
After 12 hours the starter rose by about 10–15%.
I stirred it and left it for another 12 hours.
After 12 hours, it didn’t rise at all.
I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 24 hours.
After 24 hours, I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 12 hours.
After 12 hours, I stirred it and left it for another 12 hours.
After 12 hours, I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 12 hours.
Overall, the starter didn’t rise much – about 20%.

Is the temperature too low, or is the starter too liquid?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you very much for your response and the guidance.
Something is not working with my recipe.

I used whole rye flour (type 2000).
The room temperature was 68–70°F (20–21°C).

I mixed 100 g of flour with 150 ml of water.
After 12 hours the starter rose by about 10–15%.
I stirred it and left it for another 12 hours.
After 12 hours, it didn’t rise at all.
I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 24 hours.
After 24 hours, I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 12 hours.
After 12 hours, I stirred it and left it for another 12 hours.
After 12 hours, I added 50 g of flour and 70 ml of water. I mixed it.
Left it for 12 hours.
Overall, the starter didn’t rise much – about 20%.

Is the temperature too low, or is the starter too liquid?

Is this an established starter or are you trying to create a starter?

 

[Theofilos]

I’m making the starter from scratch.
I took 100 g of flour directly from the bag and added 150 ml of water.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I’m making the starter from scratch.
I took 100 g of flour directly from the bag and added 150 ml of water.

Okay, that changes things since creating a starter is different from maintaining one.

I recommend using Maurizio Leo’s method. While it calls for more starter, and subsequently more discard than I normally recommend, the rounded numbers make the process clear and easy to follow. After the starter is established, you can scale the quantities down to meet your baking schedule. I recommend you develop the habit of building levains as 1) you can maintain a very small maintenance starter, so significantly minimize waste; 2) it allows you to adjust the strength of the levain to the specific dough. For instance, a lean bread dough does not require as much leavening power as an enriched dough or a lean dough with a high level of whole grain flour.

When building a starter, it needs to be maintained at a warmer temperature than for ongoing maintenance. Feed it twice a day until it becomes active and predictable. Once established, you can transition to once-a-day feedings by lowering the temperature to around 65°F. If the refrigerator is your only option to hold a starter at lower temperature, you’ll still need to feed the starter at least once a week. And you will need to bring it to room temperature and feed it at least once prior to building a levain or using it straight.

Goal temperature: 80°F. If you do not have an incubator, use 80°F water and keep the jar in a warm spot in the kitchen. If the surface is cold, such as a granite countertop, place a kitchen towel underneath. It’s important to leave the jar loosely covered.

Day 1
100 g rye flour
125 g water

Day 2–3: 24-hour feeding schedule
75 g carryover starter
50 g rye flour
50 g unbleached white flour
115 g water

Day 4–6: 12-hour feeding schedule
20 g carryover starter
30 g rye flour
70 g unbleached white flour
115 g water


Continue on a 12-hour feeding schedule until the starter shows a consistent fermentation pattern as described below.

Day 7 and thereafter
20 g carryover starter
30 g rye flour
70 g unbleached white flour
100 g water


An established starter will show consistent fermentation patterns. When fed on a regular schedule and maintained at temperatures between 74°F and 78°F, it will display predictable patterns.


These are signs that the starter has peaked and is ready either for feeding or for use in baking.

• Visible air bubbles throughout and on the surface; bubble size will vary depending on flour type and hydration.
  
  
• Top surface appears slightly domed rather than flat.
  
  
• Sweet, pleasant aroma.
  
  
• Rise doubles or nearly triples in height; if using all whole-grain flour (not advisable for maintenance), the rise will usually be lower, but you should see at least a 40% increase in height.
  
  
• Texture becomes looser compared to when it was freshly mixed; when first mixed, the starter will be thick and firm, but after fermentation, it should flow when the jar is tilted.

 

[Theofilos]

Thank you very much.
I wanted to make a sourdough starter using only whole rye flour.
It should be possible to do.
It did rise a bit more once before, but I’m not sure what it depended on.
Maybe the temperature played a role, since it should be around 78°F.
Your recipe also uses less water.
I’ll try it that way.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you very much.
I wanted to make a sourdough starter using only whole rye flour.
It should be possible to do.
It did rise a bit more once before, but I’m not sure what it depended on.
Maybe the temperature played a role, since it should be around 78°F.
Your recipe also uses less water.
I’ll try it that way.

Yes it is possible to do an all rye flour starter. You can use the starter outline I provided with a couple of adjustments.

1) increase the water by 5%. if you feel the dough is too dry, you can increase it up to 10%.

2) beginning on Day 2 start feeding every 12 hours

3) keep the temperature at 80°F for the first three days, then reduce it to 75°F

4) rye is higher in gliadin and lower in glutenin than wheat flour, so your starter will not rise as much as a rye and wheat flour blend.


Some things to keep in mind…

rye contains high levels of enzymes and bran, which accelerate acid production and protein breakdown. An all rye flour starter or one with a high proportion of rye will peak much faster than those made with other flours. The shortened window of peak activity requires means frequent feedings. Over time, the elevated enzyme activity might upset the balance between yeast and bacteria, leading to a sluggish and overly sour starter. If that happens, temporarily feed with a blend of rye and all purpose or bread flour. You may need to temporarily go to a 6 hour feeding schedule as well.

Rye contains pentosans, a carbohydrate with significant water absorption power. So it tends to produces a bread with a gummy moist crumb. When you start baking with it I would recommend starting with a lower hydration dough. I used to keep a 50/50 rye and all-purpose starter. Even with the blend I found 75% hydration too gummy for my taste. So I would recommend starting around 69% hydration and slowly increase until you find the texture you like. Also, the pentosans in rye flour makes the dough sticky. So just remember to keep your hands and tools wet when handling the dough.

 

[Theofilos]

Thank you very much.
So the proportions of the ingredients are similar to mine.
The problem in my case was the temperature being too low.

How can you tell that the starter is too sour and needs to be fed earlier?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you very much.
So the proportions of the ingredients are similar to mine.
The problem in my case was the temperature being too low.

How can you tell that the starter is too sour and needs to be fed earlier?

Flavor is a combination of the yeast and bacteria. When there is an good balance between the yeast colony and lactic acid bacteria, the starter will have a pleasant yeasty bready like aroma with a slight tang similar to yogurt. You should be able to inhale the aroma and not pull back.

When the aroma becomes more pungent and vinegary, or if it is sharp enough for you to pull away when smelling it, that indicates more acetic acid bacteria. Some acetic acid is fine, especially if you want a pronounced tangy San Francisco style sourdough.

But too much over a long period of time will diminish the yeast colony. The starter will have a persistent vinegar order, will not rise as high, be stickier, and will start to collapse shortly after peaking.

An all rye flour is more prone to hooch even if healthy. Hooch is a essentially alcohol and acidic liquid released when the yeast is in decline and the bacteria becomes dominant. The presences of hooch is a sign that the starter is overdue for feeding and sour. If you regularly see a layer of liquid on top, the time between feedings is too long.

So you know it's too sour when it has a sharp vinegar smell, is sluggish, collapses shortly after peaking, and/or produces a liquid layer (hooch).