Sourdough: Not getting open crumb.

[Poidad]

Hey guys,

Im new to this forum, I've been a baker for about 20 years now and made plenty of sourdough before, however recently I purchased a bakery and I am trying to bring in my own sourdough, with a bit of success.

My sourdough starter is perfect and recipe seems sound with 80% water. However every time I bake them they have a relatively closed crumb. I have tried over proofing, under proofing, adding 1-2% yeast, slow proofing, using the proofer, reducing the starter, different oven temps, different flour. I just have no idea whats going on. The only thing I can think of is the starter is stuffing it up, but its just a 50/50 flour/water recipe, and the reason I think it could be the starter is because my Ciabatta turns out perfect. I have tried a couple different starters too.

If anyone has some ideas I could try I would appreciate it.

Thanks

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hey guys,

Im new to this forum, I've been a baker for about 20 years now and made plenty of sourdough before, however recently I purchased a bakery and I am trying to bring in my own sourdough, with a bit of success.

My sourdough starter is perfect and recipe seems sound with 80% water. However every time I bake them they have a relatively closed crumb. I have tried over proofing, under proofing, adding 1-2% yeast, slow proofing, using the proofer, reducing the starter, different oven temps, different flour. I just have no idea whats going on. The only thing I can think of is the starter is stuffing it up, but its just a 50/50 flour/water recipe, and the reason I think it could be the starter is because my Ciabatta turns out perfect. I have tried a couple different starters too.

If anyone has some ideas I could try I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If you want to produce sourdough for commercial production, you really need professional training. The profit margin on bread is very small. If you’re going to make a decent living, you need a quality product. And you’re not going to learn to make a quality product by asking for advise on a forum. I don’t mean to sound rude, but being direct is it’s important here since this involves your ability to make a living. The lack of an open crumb indicates you lack the fundamental skills and knowledge of bread making. You need a basic bread making class.

If you are in the US, I would recommend you contact one of the following training centers. These are the top bread people in the US. The training for bread doesn’t get much better than this for bakery production.

Keith Giusto Bakery Supply. Their Artisan Baking Center offers intense two day workshop training for professionals. It’s taught by Craig Ponsford.

https://centralmilling.com/class/artisan-i-with-craig-ponsford/

The other training center would be the San Francisco Baking Institute. The founder Michel Suas, literally wrote the book on baking. Same training as Artisan Baking Center, but 5 days so more hands on and of course more expensive.

https://www.sfbi.com/images/2019___5_day_workshops-_monthly_calendar.pdf


San Francisco Baking Institute also does consulting, so if you want contact about creating/troubleshooting your sourdough that’s also an option.

https://www.sfbi.com/on-site-consulting.html


==================================

Advanced Bread and Pastry by Michel Suas

https://www.sfbi.com/baking-supplies/books

Jeffrey Hamelman
https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Bakers-Book-Techniques-Recipes/dp/1118132718

 

[Poidad]

I don’t mean to sound rude, but being direct is it’s important here since this involves your ability to make a living. The lack of an open crumb indicates you lack the fundamental skills and knowledge of bread making. You need a basic bread making class.

Whilst you say you dont mean to be rude, you have been incredibly rude.
As stated in my post I have been a baker for 20 years and been baking bread just as long, as well as doing 4 years of trade school and an apprenticeship.

I have made plenty of sourdough in my time and with great success, just never with the equipment I am using at my new bakery. Also as stated previously I dont have any problem with an open crumb with my ciabatta.

I am on this forum to get suggestions from other bakers on how to fix the problem.
I hope there are more helpful people on this forum.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Whilst you say you dont mean to be rude, you have been incredibly rude.
As stated in my post I have been a baker for 20 years and been baking bread just as long, as well as doing 4 years of trade school and an apprenticeship.

I have made plenty of sourdough in my time and with great success, just never with the equipment I am using at my new bakery. Also as stated previously I dont have any problem with an open crumb with my ciabatta.

I am on this forum to get suggestions from other bakers on how to fix the problem.
I hope there are more helpful people on this forum.

What you’re saying does not seem to add up.


If you have 4 years of trade show experience and an apprenticeship, you should have a professional network of bakers that you can turn to for help.


Assuming you’re in the US, if you have been baking sourdough for years and doing trade shows then as a professional artisan bread baker the first place to turn to for assistance is the Bread Bakers Guild of America. And as a bakery owner other resources available to you are the American Bakers Association and Retail Bakers of America.


And since you feel it’s the equipment giving you trouble why haven’t you contacted the manufacturer’s customer service for help? That what they are there for.


If in fact you are a seasoned professional in artisan sourdough why are you seeking help on a home bakers forum based out of the UK when there are all these professional resources available to you here in the US?


I am not being rude. I am being direct and honest. You are in the business to bake and sell bread. You cannot bake a loaf of sourdough bread worth selling. I am telling you that you cannot learn to bake 100 identical loaves of sourdough bread a day on this forum.


I directed you to two resources where you can go to learn how to bake sourdough for production. You can be offended all you want. I don’t care. At the end of the day it’s not my business that is suffering, it’s yours. I’m just trying to get you back on track because I see you’re lost.

 

[Poidad]

No worries, thanks.