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Message: [QUOTE="rubato456, post: 37253, member: 2962"] i often use butter in my challahs instead of oil and butter i image has more moisture because its a dairy product? not sure. but i never rely totally on a recipe. i use it as a guide but not an absolute, you must learn to rely of the feel of the dough how it feels to work with. and absolutely the weather makes a huge difference how humid it is will affect how much water your flour absorbs and also how you store your flour. i always do the "window test to be sure my gluten is developed enough. better to use less flour you can always add more. big mistake is to add too much flour......at the start. baking bread is messy and fun. i finally decided to invest in a stand mixer and i'm so glad i did. it does the heavy mixing for me. but i still hover over it and test the dough mixing carefully and not too much not too high a setting. it all takes time and effort but its so fun! nothing in the world like fresh baked bread that looks beautiful to boot. one of the 7 wonders of the world lol :-) so glad i decided to joint this group. this is gonna be fun! does anyone grind their own flour? i've wondered about this but never done it. i bet if done right it would yield wonderful breads (when compelled with wonderful baking ) [/QUOTE]