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Message: [QUOTE="Surmanator27, post: 44058, member: 5299"] Thanks for this it really explains a lot I on reviewing the recipe it does call for more water Which I admit I got wrong . I used a kneading technique which I had learnt for white bread . My whole meal loaf went on the bird table . I made a seeded loaf that my biggest critic (my wife) loved . She wants me to bake a loaf that resembles shop bought that you can make sandwiches out of. On the first prove I was conscious of over proving it had almost quadrupled in size. Once again thank you for the feedback. [/QUOTE]