Brief descriptions of cake

Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Just got to Chapter 3 of how Baking works. Did some* not all the experiments but I wish it answered the question in the experiments where it can.

I am admittedly going to do most of the experiments in Chapter 3...all about baking ingredients.

I wish I had a visual example like that picture you shared about 134% sugar. Do you have a source for that one please?

I recall from some of your posts that properly baked and formulated cakes should not have doming and brown on the outside. Correct me if I'm wrong. My pans unfortunately are the Fat Daddio 3" pans though. I have admittedly not baked anything in them worthwhile but I do not have a heat core. I only fill to halfway mark though as I heard doing more than half way isn't advisable for them.

1) “I wish I had a visual example like that picture you shared about 134% sugar. Do you have a source for that one please?”

Unfortunately, I don’t know of any textbooks that illustrate formula problems. It’s interesting in classes. Instructors will emphasize the importance of Baker’s percentages, yet the most a textbook gives to baking problems is a genetic troubleshooting list. Bakers have to learn to recognize the characteristics of a fail through experience and education.

That photograph I posted was just a photo of a cake from a blogger who posted her “perfect white cake” recipe. When I saw the photo of the slumping sides of the cake I knew the sugar to flour ratio was off. I then scrolled down and calculated the baker’s percentages of her recipe to confirm my suspicions. And sure enough, it had too much sugar.

Since there are no resources that illustrate baking problems like a slumping cake and the cause, I decided to save the photograph, then added the notations and red circles around the slumping areas. Since then, I’ve used the photograph several times in response to questions about ratios. It’s definitely been useful.

2) “I recall from some of your posts that properly baked and formulated cakes should not have doming and brown on the outside.”

Yes, a properly formulated and baked cake will bake level, not have a dry brown crust. I am not a fan of Fat Daddio’s anodized aluminum pans. You may be able to achieve better results if you reduce the oven temperature and use damp cloth baking strips around the pan. Most cake recipes incorrectly state a 350°F oven temperature. But most cakes should be baked at 325°F regardless of the type of pan. The only cakes I bake at 350°F are carrot cake, hummingbird cake, fruit cake, and most chocolate cakes.

you may have seen these photos already. But I’ll post them again for reference. These two cake layers were from the same batch of batter, baked in the same oven, baked at the same time, baked at 325°F. The only difference is I baked the cake layer on the top in a Gat Daddio pan. The bottom layer was baked and a Chicago metallic uncoded metal pan. The Gat Daddio pan conducts heat so intensely, I had to pull that cake layer out of the oven a good 5 mins before the other cake. you can see the hard brown dry crust on the Gat Daddio cake. A cake like that is inedible.
IMG_0679.jpeg


This is a test cake I made to try a buttercream techinque. note that there is no brown hard dry crust on this cake.
IMG_2014.jpeg


this is one of my chocolate cakes baked at 350°F. There’s no dry crust. Like my other cakes, it rises to the full height of the 2” pan, and it is level. I honestly can’t remember the last time I leveled a cake. It’s been at least 20 years since I had a cake dome. When cake is baked properly and well formulated, it will bake up beautifully level.
IMG_6985.jpeg


these mini Bundt cakes were baked in a dark coated Nordicware pan that was a gift. Note the dark crust. I savaged these cakes by dousing them with a lemon verbena simple syrup as soon as they came out of the oven; then doused a couple more times as they cooled. The recipient raved about the cakes. But in all honesty, having to douse a cake in simple syrup to make it edible is sure sign the cake was not baked properly. I noticed that Nordicware has lightened the coating on many of their bundt pans. I haven’t tried any of their newer pans, but I hope they bake better than these
IMG_0987.jpeg


Just an aside, Fat Daddio makes good heating cores. I have several of them.

 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
photo of a cake from a blogger who posted her “perfect white cake” recipe.

I laughed out loud. Wowzers. Perfect! Admittedly I never imagined something like CAKE to be so complex. I love science based reading on foodstuffs - but admittedly - even if I understand something science wise as I read it...my brain is quick to forget or retain the things I read to memory. It's gotten worse over time...but I still try.

Since there are no resources that illustrate baking problems like a slumping cake and the cause, I decided to save the photograph, then added the notations and red circles around the slumping areas. Since then, I’ve used the photograph several times in response to questions about ratios. It’s definitely been useful.

I reached Chapter 5 of the How Baking Works book. It's exceptionally helpful...but so far it feels like quite a compendium of knowledge one can easily drown in (and I am since each ingredient is essentially one whole chapter!). I learned a lot about cake flour that I wasn't aware of - such as how cake flour has starch granules that can absorb a lot of water and swell - allowing for a thicker rather than thinner batter which is supposed to set nicer. Then I read about how cake flour can make cookies that are like cakes......assuming everything else is the same - it won't spread as much. Though I wonder what cake flour + butter would do - I didn't get to that test. Admittedly the recipe is given as classroom instructional.

It seems a lot of the learning about "seeing" faults in cake formulations comes from a complete grasp of the ingredient science...one which I don't honestly know if I will ever get down intricacy wise unless I do a bunch of experiments per the book....which I don't think I can do them all - but I'll try. It seems your analysis is spot on. A lot of these books will give tables...and no visuals...same with Gisslen (makes me frown). I'd kill for a more visual guide to these problems than text-descriptions in table-form.


But most cakes should be baked at 325°F regardless of the type of pan. The only cakes I bake at 350°F are carrot cake, hummingbird cake, fruit cake, and most chocolate cakes.

you may have seen these photos already. But I’ll post them again for reference. These two cake layers were from the same batch of batter, baked in the same oven, baked at the same time, baked at 325°F. The only difference is I baked the cake layer on the top in a Gat Daddio pan. The bottom layer was baked and a Chicago metallic uncoded metal pan.

I have seen these photos. That cake looks appetizing. I definitely think you have a vast compendium of wisdom when it comes to cakes! I was surprised - since about 99.9% of youtube videos on cake show brown crusting. Something that admittedly turned me away from cakes. I always found that gross - so I never really delved further into cakes besides jaconde and biscuit sponges.

Watching Great British Bake Off always make me want to do something with cake, but I always realize that it's too much misinformation out on the internet - so I never bothered. Seems there's all these incorrect ways of doing things that are "passable" as cake but not ideal.

The HI-RATIO shortening I have is SWEETEX CAKE & ICING shortening ....so I'm not sure how this one fares. I just got to the fat section of How Baking Works (I may have skipped a bit, but I promise to go back lol). It's interesting - but it would seem they recommend some form of creaming with plastic shortening and a two-stage method...whereas with hi-ratio liquid - its a one-stage method with no creaming...I may have to re-read it.

I have fat-daddio pans that are 3" - but only 8" diameter - so no core necessary? I figured - the higher the pan height - the more "height" I can get on the cake without over-doming. But from reading what you mentioned, it seems even a cake core is needed for these? Is the heat conductivity of anodized aluminum the reason the fat daddio's baked more intensely? I believe you still use baking rings (Damp) for your chicago metallic pan as well, right?

It's great to know about baking temperatures. In the past - I tried baking at 275F or 300F - and ended up with (now that I read how baking works) - gelatinized rubbery starch at the bottom! Yayyy. Looked like a smooth rubbery cake. x_x. It was a play on adding bananas to chocolate - and I just thought "lower bakes more evenly" but clearly this is a myth. Or people baking lower - have stronger ovens? I saw some people on this forum claiming they bake at 300F for "more even cakes." Any comments on this from a professional like yourself? I have always baked chocolate cakes lower, and even at 325F - and ended up with a raw or gummy cake. But I'm aware without a recipe - it's hard to diagnose. I hope "How Baking Works" approaches the cake formulation rules soon....

Admittedly - my favorite types of cakes (in my head) would be similar to cakes with 1 inch layers between each frosting. I don't like thick (2"-3") stacks piled on top of another like a lot of youtubers do for fondant cakes...gross :/

Currently - I want to bake a cake - but I have "choice paralysis" trying to figure out what recipe won't be utter crud. Guess I'll have to opt-out and do more reading.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
I laughed out loud. Wowzers. Perfect! Admittedly I never imagined something like CAKE to be so complex. I love science based reading on foodstuffs - but admittedly - even if I understand something science wise as I read it...my brain is quick to forget or retain the things I read to memory. It's gotten worse over time...but I still try.



I reached Chapter 5 of the How Baking Works book. It's exceptionally helpful...but so far it feels like quite a compendium of knowledge one can easily drown in (and I am since each ingredient is essentially one whole chapter!). I learned a lot about cake flour that I wasn't aware of - such as how cake flour has starch granules that can absorb a lot of water and swell - allowing for a thicker rather than thinner batter which is supposed to set nicer. Then I read about how cake flour can make cookies that are like cakes......assuming everything else is the same - it won't spread as much. Though I wonder what cake flour + butter would do - I didn't get to that test. Admittedly the recipe is given as classroom instructional.

It seems a lot of the learning about "seeing" faults in cake formulations comes from a complete grasp of the ingredient science...one which I don't honestly know if I will ever get down intricacy wise unless I do a bunch of experiments per the book....which I don't think I can do them all - but I'll try. It seems your analysis is spot on. A lot of these books will give tables...and no visuals...same with Gisslen (makes me frown). I'd kill for a more visual guide to these problems than text-descriptions in table-form.




I have seen these photos. That cake looks appetizing. I definitely think you have a vast compendium of wisdom when it comes to cakes! I was surprised - since about 99.9% of youtube videos on cake show brown crusting. Something that admittedly turned me away from cakes. I always found that gross - so I never really delved further into cakes besides jaconde and biscuit sponges.

Watching Great British Bake Off always make me want to do something with cake, but I always realize that it's too much misinformation out on the internet - so I never bothered. Seems there's all these incorrect ways of doing things that are "passable" as cake but not ideal.

The HI-RATIO shortening I have is SWEETEX CAKE & ICING shortening ....so I'm not sure how this one fares. I just got to the fat section of How Baking Works (I may have skipped a bit, but I promise to go back lol). It's interesting - but it would seem they recommend some form of creaming with plastic shortening and a two-stage method...whereas with hi-ratio liquid - its a one-stage method with no creaming...I may have to re-read it.

I have fat-daddio pans that are 3" - but only 8" diameter - so no core necessary? I figured - the higher the pan height - the more "height" I can get on the cake without over-doming. But from reading what you mentioned, it seems even a cake core is needed for these? Is the heat conductivity of anodized aluminum the reason the fat daddio's baked more intensely? I believe you still use baking rings (Damp) for your chicago metallic pan as well, right?

It's great to know about baking temperatures. In the past - I tried baking at 275F or 300F - and ended up with (now that I read how baking works) - gelatinized rubbery starch at the bottom! Yayyy. Looked like a smooth rubbery cake. x_x. It was a play on adding bananas to chocolate - and I just thought "lower bakes more evenly" but clearly this is a myth. Or people baking lower - have stronger ovens? I saw some people on this forum claiming they bake at 300F for "more even cakes." Any comments on this from a professional like yourself? I have always baked chocolate cakes lower, and even at 325F - and ended up with a raw or gummy cake. But I'm aware without a recipe - it's hard to diagnose. I hope "How Baking Works" approaches the cake formulation rules soon....

Admittedly - my favorite types of cakes (in my head) would be similar to cakes with 1 inch layers between each frosting. I don't like thick (2"-3") stacks piled on top of another like a lot of youtubers do for fondant cakes...gross :/

Currently - I want to bake a cake - but I have "choice paralysis" trying to figure out what recipe won't be utter crud. Guess I'll have to opt-out and do more reading.


1) “I reached Chapter 5 of the How Baking Works book. It's exceptionally helpful...but so far it feels like quite a compendium of knowledge one can easily drown in (and I am since each ingredient is essentially one whole chapter!).”

The best way to build baking knowledge is to keep baking binders. I organize by categories. At the front of the binder keep bullet lists of necessary information and troubleshooting guides. Before you begin a baking project. Just quickly review some of the bullet lists.

When you bake regularly, you begin to memorize a lot of the information. A couple of months ago my son asked me to bake a batch of chocolate chips cookie. I was in his kitchen, so I grabbed an envelope and calculated the baker’s percentages from memory. Over the years I’ve made so many batches of cookies that I don’t need written baker’s percentages, mixing instructions, dough temperature, or baking times.

The more you bake, the more it all becomes committed to memory.


2) “I learned a lot about cake flour that I wasn't aware of - such as how cake flour has starch granules that can absorb a lot of water and swell - allowing for a thicker rather than thinner batter which is supposed to set nicer.”



Flour is milled by separating the wheat kernel into its parts: bran, endosperm, and germ.

The parts are then milled separately. These are referred to as streams. To make different flours, different percentages of streams are blended. Some millers will blend different wheat varieties to create specific characteristics for the flour.


Cake flour is made from the endosperm stream. The endosperm is essentially pure starch. It is bleached to increase performance and lighten the color.



The water and heat trigger starch gelatinization. Starch gelatinization happens in all baking; it also happens when any starch is mixed with water and heat. For example, starch gelatinization is used in sauces, custards, and creams. Wheat starch, cornstarch, tapioca starch, and potato starch are the most common starches used in baking and cooking.


Cake flour will compress into a clump due to the low extraction rate and high starch content of the endosperm
IMG_9177.jpeg


All purpose flour has a higher extraction rate, so more bran and germ blended back in. You can see the lower starch content makes a flour that will not stick to itself like cake flour.
IMG_9179.jpeg


This 110 flour has a higher extraction rate than all purpose flour. The low starch content can be seen in a flour that doesn't clump.
IMG_9181.jpeg



3) “A lot of these books will give tables...and no visuals...same with Gisslen (makes me frown). I'd kill for a more visual guide to these problems than text-descriptions in table-form.”



Yes, it is very frustrating that visual illustrations are not provided in textbooks. That’s why I saved the “perfect white cake” photo—it’s a perfect illustration of a cake formulated with too much sugar.



4) “The HI-RATIO shortening I have is SWEETEX CAKE & ICING shortening ....so I'm not sure how this one fares.”



Full disclosure, I am not a fan of shortening. However, in classes and some situations I have been required to use shortening. I’ve used the old Sweetex, not the new version. The old Sweetex performed well. A lot of bakeries that regularly use shortening complained that the new formulation has not performed well. But it’s not just the Sweetex brand, it’s all brands.



5) “I have fat-daddio pans that are 3" - but only 8" diameter - so no core necessary?”


No heating core is needed if you are not filling the pan more than 1/2 full. Use a heating core for any pan more than 2” deep when filling 2/3 full; when the pan diameter is 10” or larger.



Keep in mind that filling half full doesn’t produce a good cake. This cake was baked by an extremely talented pastry chef. She only fills the 3” pan half full. but as you can see, the anodized aluminum causes the cake to make too hot. The result is a hard dry crust all around and a domed cake.

IMG_7731.jpeg


6) “I tried baking at 275F or 300F - and ended up with (now that I read how baking works) - gelatinized rubbery starch at the bottom!”



Oven temperature is only part of the equation. A successful product requires an appropriate finished batter/dough temperature. Desired Dough Temperature (DDT) is often centered on yeast doughs. But it is equally important in batters. A finished butter cake batter should not exceed 68°F. Above that temperature, butter plasticity is lost. Below that, the stages of baking are delayed resulting in a rubbery, dense, chewy cake.

The oven temperature needs to be in sync with the finished batter/dough temperature.

Stages of Baking:
  1. Fats melt: 92°F butter melts Butter is an emulsion of fat and water; butter separates at this temperature.
  2. 140°F (60°C) the second stage of double-acting baking powder activates. Gases expand and form: the water heats, then turns to steam. The steam expands the batter.
  3. Sugars dissolve; the rate of solubility of sugar depends on temperature and liquid content; the warmer the batter/dough and the higher the liquid content, the faster the sugar dissolves.
  4. 144°F (60°C) protein denaturalization begins
  5. 122°F (50°C) starch gelatinization begins
  6. Gasses evaporate
  7. 310°F (155°C) Maillard reaction occurs


In a professional convection oven, the baking temperature can be reduced below 325°F. But these ovens are designed to evenly circulate hot air between multiple pans on multiple racks. A home oven does not perform like a commercial oven.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Thanks Norcal!

I decided I will get rid of my fat daddio pans by sellign them off. Lightly used. I got 1x6, 1x10, and 2x8.

When I first got the 3" I was under the impression I can get "more cake" rather than having to bake 3 pans I could just bake 2 and get more layers.

I think realistically 3" cake pans should "rise" to the top and be level if it's proper formulation right?

I really wish I had some good cake reference recipes for chocolate, etc. I think I'm going to go through a lot of bad cake (lol).

In any case - I found Chicago Metallic UNCOATED pans https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...eel-round-customizable-cake-pan/32646020.html

#46020 Cake Pan - would you recommend these?

Apparently you're supposed to fill to 2/3 but I saw a youtube baking instructional where a teacher recommended 1/2" way or "things would go wrong." Seems 2/3 is the way to go...

I have parchment rounds I bought from a bake store - but I am assuming I need some sort of baking spray? I am not a fan of "grease and flour". Any suggestions? Could I just line a pan with vaporized oil or do baking sprays meant for cakes have special release agents that are proprietary?

Also - any comments on baking a SHEET PAN cake. Is that usually going to bake more evenly? Something similar to milk bar cakes.

Lastly - is there a need for "hi ratio cake flour" to use hi ratio shortening? Any suggestions on the grind of powdered sugar for icing? I read a lot of people prefer Domino 10x.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Thanks Norcal!

I decided I will get rid of my fat daddio pans by sellign them off. Lightly used. I got 1x6, 1x10, and 2x8.

When I first got the 3" I was under the impression I can get "more cake" rather than having to bake 3 pans I could just bake 2 and get more layers.

I think realistically 3" cake pans should "rise" to the top and be level if it's proper formulation right?

I really wish I had some good cake reference recipes for chocolate, etc. I think I'm going to go through a lot of bad cake (lol).

In any case - I found Chicago Metallic UNCOATED pans https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...eel-round-customizable-cake-pan/32646020.html

#46020 Cake Pan - would you recommend these?

Apparently you're supposed to fill to 2/3 but I saw a youtube baking instructional where a teacher recommended 1/2" way or "things would go wrong." Seems 2/3 is the way to go...

I have parchment rounds I bought from a bake store - but I am assuming I need some sort of baking spray? I am not a fan of "grease and flour". Any suggestions? Could I just line a pan with vaporized oil or do baking sprays meant for cakes have special release agents that are proprietary?

Also - any comments on baking a SHEET PAN cake. Is that usually going to bake more evenly? Something similar to milk bar cakes.

Lastly - is there a need for "hi ratio cake flour" to use hi ratio shortening? Any suggestions on the grind of powdered sugar for icing? I read a lot of people prefer Domino 10x.

1) “I think realistically 3" cake pans should "rise" to the top and be level if it's proper formulation right?”

Yes. Just keep in mind a 3” + deep pan requires a heating core.

2) pan recommendation.

I have those pans as well as the glazed aluminized steel pans from Chicago Metallic. Aluminized steel glazed pans are not the same as non-stick coating. I frequently use them



I would not recommend Webstaurant website as they charge astronomical shipping cost. When shipping is added, the price is triple the advertised price.

When I buy online, I usually buy from Wasserstrom Restaurant Supply through their Amazon store. Links below


3) “Apparently you're supposed to fill to 2/3 but I saw a youtube baking instructional where a teacher recommended 1/2" way or "things would go wrong." Seems 2/3.”

If that teacher recommended filling the pan half full to prevent a baking catastrophe, then something is seriously wrong with her formulas. I fill my pans by weight, but it still fills the pan 2/3 full.

4) “I am assuming I need some sort of baking spray?”

Yes, even with parchment circle, the pan should be greased. I’m not a fan of greasing and dusting with flour. I prefer sprays that are specific to baking. Baking specific sprays contain, but since it is aerosolized, it doesn’t create a crust like a pan dusted in flour. I spray, then lightly spread with a pastry brush to remove excess spray and evenly coat the pan. Then line bottom with a parchment circle.


5) “Also - any comments on baking a SHEET PAN cake.”

I use this technique all the time. t’s important to fully line the baking sheet. I use full sheet (16 3/8” x 24 3/8”) parchment paper. The half sheet size parchment paper is too small to cover the sides. So if using half sheets, you’ll have to cut strips for the sides.


I use a variety of cake rings and cutters to cut cake layers from a sheet pan.
IMG_4011.jpeg


A fully lined sheet pan prevents sticking and prevents a dry hard crust from forming. This photo of a swiss roll cake is from a textbook. Note how white the cake is—yet it’s baked at 425°F

IMG_4437.jpeg


6) “Lastly - is there a need for "hi ratio cake flour" to use hi ratio shortening?”

No. Retail bleached cake flour like Softasilk or Swans Down is essentially the same as “high ratio” cake flour. High ratio cake flour is milled from a low protein wheat and bleached. In most cases, it’s also enriched (vitamins added to the flour) since the endosperm doesn’t have any nutrients to speak of. Any flour labeled “unbleached cake flour” is not cake flour. The characteristics of cake flour (high rise, soft airy crumb, light color, neutral flavor is only achieved with bleached flour. So called unbleached cake flour is just all purpose flour blended with a starch. Adding a bit of starch to an all-purpose is not going to change its characteristics. Unbleached flour bakes up much heavier and dense.

When using high ratio shortening, it’s important that you use a recipe that is actually formulated for high ratio shortening.


How to line a pan



 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
I have those pans as well as the glazed aluminized steel pans from Chicago Metallic. Aluminized steel glazed pans are not the same as non-stick coating. I frequently use them

Apparently glazed means they use Chicago Metallics eSilicone Glaze. Do you recommend that glazed aluminized steel over uncoated?

Also it would seem you also linked to Williams Sonoma pans. But they arent Chicago metallic..or are they? Not sure which to get still.

Seems webstaurant store vs the Amazon link comes to the same price shipping wise where I am except webstaurant store would save me money surprisingly.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Apparently glazed means they use Chicago Metallics eSilicone Glaze. Do you recommend that glazed aluminized steel over uncoated?

Also it would seem you also linked to Williams Sonoma pans. But they arent Chicago metallic..or are they? Not sure which to get still.

Seems webstaurant store vs the Amazon link comes to the same price shipping wise where I am except webstaurant store would save me money surprisingly.

1) “Do you recommend that glazed aluminized steel over uncoated?”

I don’t have a preference, I use both pans. Both pans perform well. Both should be hand-washed. The aluminized steel is a bit more durable and easier to clean. Maybe for convenience, go with the aluminized steel. Just don’t confuse the aluminized steel glazed pan with the non-stick. The non-stick is significantly darker in color. Non-stick way over heats.

2) “Also it would seem you also linked to Williams Sonoma pans. But they arent Chicago metallic..or are they? Not sure which to get still.”

William Sonoma pans are sold under their brand name. I own a couple of the uncoated aluminized steel. They perform very well. William Sonoma also sell several different types of pans, to read the description carefully. The uncoated aluminized steel pan is lighter in color, does not have ridges on the bottom, and is labeled uncoated. It is a very good pan.

I’m surprised the webstaurant store shipping is reasonable. Every time I attempt to purchase basic items the shipping is estimated at three times the cost of the products. It’s more cost effective to drive over 1 hr to the restaurant supply store.

Speaking of restaurant supply stores, check to see if there is one near you. Many are opened to the public.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
1) “Do you recommend that glazed aluminized steel over uncoated?”

I don’t have a preference, I use both pans. Both pans perform well. Both should be hand-washed. The aluminized steel is a bit more durable and easier to clean. Maybe for convenience, go with the aluminized steel. Just don’t confuse the aluminized steel glazed pan with the non-stick. The non-stick is significantly darker in color. Non-stick way over heats.

2) “Also it would seem you also linked to Williams Sonoma pans. But they arent Chicago metallic..or are they? Not sure which to get still.”

William Sonoma pans are sold under their brand name. I own a couple of the uncoated aluminized steel. They perform very well. William Sonoma also sell several different types of pans, to read the description carefully. The uncoated aluminized steel pan is lighter in color, does not have ridges on the bottom, and is labeled uncoated. It is a very good pan.

I’m surprised the webstaurant store shipping is reasonable. Every time I attempt to purchase basic items the shipping is estimated at three times the cost of the products. It’s more cost effective to drive over 1 hr to the restaurant supply store.

Speaking of restaurant supply stores, check to see if there is one near you. Many are opened to the public.


Thank you! It would seem both uncoated and coated are aluminized steel. Would you say that it might be worth going for the coated? I did check a bunch of restaurant supply stores around me. Some carry Chicago Metallic...but mostly muffin pans (lol)

Any comments on possibly Magic Line/Parrish cake pans? Seems like just plain aluminum uncoated pans. Not aluminized steel.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Thank you! It would seem both uncoated and coated are aluminized steel. Would you say that it might be worth going for the coated? I did check a bunch of restaurant supply stores around me. Some carry Chicago Metallic...but mostly muffin pans (lol)

Any comments on possibly Magic Line/Parrish cake pans? Seems like just plain aluminum uncoated pans. Not aluminized steel.

I love all aluminized steel pans. Try one of each to see if you have a preference. Just stay away from the aluminized steel pans made by USA Pan—their glaze performs like a non-stick coating in that it conducts way too much heat. The only USA pan I use is a pie tin—crust benefits from that high heat conduction.

Parrish’s Magic Line is an excellent pan. I own Magic Line square cake pans and removable bottom round pans. They have a cult like following among event cake bakers, especially their square pans and removable bottom pans. The square pans create sharp clean edges and straight sides. The removable bottom pans make it easy to remove the cake.

Chicago Metallic was the number one commercial baking pan for years. I have some Chicago Metallic commercial bun pans that are over 20 yrs old and still going strong.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Thanks. I will be going for 8x2 (3) and 6x2 (1) chicago metallic aluminized steel. I am unable to secure magic line from the store that claimed they had it -_-
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Thanks. I will be going for 8x2 (3) and 6x2 (1) chicago metallic aluminized steel. I am unable to secure magic line from the store that claimed they had it -_-
The Chicago metallic aluminized steel is a very good pan.

Parrish pans are hard to find. I used to get them from a restaurant supply store.

I’ve purchased a few online at Sweet Treat Supply. When I purchase removable bottom pans, I purchase spare bottoms.

 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Finally ended up buying

10x2, 6x2, 4x4x2, 6x6x2, and 8x2 (3) of Magic Line. I realized the Chicago Metallic cost would be too great for the small amount of pans I would be getting... so I opted for the Magic Line without removable bottoms which I believe they refer to as their Cheesecake pan. The site I ordered from didn't have the removable bottom versions but thats OK to me.

I went for the 2inch deep pans. It seems most standard recipes are written for 2 inch pans. I can calculate the area of the pans and divide and multiply ingredients to scale up...but taking the 2/3 rule you mentioned...I am not too keen on getting experience baking with baking core

For the same price I was able to get the square pans in addition
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Finally ended up buying

10x2, 6x2, 4x4x2, 6x6x2, and 8x2 (3) of Magic Line. I realized the Chicago Metallic cost would be too great for the small amount of pans I would be getting... so I opted for the Magic Line without removable bottoms which I believe they refer to as their Cheesecake pan. The site I ordered from didn't have the removable bottom versions but thats OK to me.

I went for the 2inch deep pans. It seems most standard recipes are written for 2 inch pans. I can calculate the area of the pans and divide and multiply ingredients to scale up...but taking the 2/3 rule you mentioned...I am not too keen on getting experience baking with baking core

For the same price I was able to get the square pans in addition
I think you’ll be very pleased with the Perrish Magic Line pans. As I mentioned, they have a cult-like following among event (especially wedding) cake bakers.

just remember to hand wash. The high alkaline levels in dishwasher detergent and the high heat will ruin the finish on any and all aluminum pans and tools.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Thank you - any recommendations on types of baking spray? I went ahead with the 2" deep pans because it seems a lot are under the impression that they "need 3" deep pans" to get full 2" height layers. I believed this to be true - as a lot of people do this - but reading what you wrote it seems to make more sense. I never understood why pans would be sized-up like this...

Clearly a lot of people compensating for poor formulas? Any recommendations on good cake formula resource to work from? Seems like its a trial/error with every. single. recipe. (oof) - because technically every recipe may or may not be formulated for proper rise? Hope the how baking works gets to the formula rules soon. I still have no idea what to look for cake-formula wise
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Thank you - any recommendations on types of baking spray? I went ahead with the 2" deep pans because it seems a lot are under the impression that they "need 3" deep pans" to get full 2" height layers. I believed this to be true - as a lot of people do this - but reading what you wrote it seems to make more sense. I never understood why pans would be sized-up like this...

Clearly a lot of people compensating for poor formulas? Any recommendations on good cake formula resource to work from? Seems like its a trial/error with every. single. recipe. (oof) - because technically every recipe may or may not be formulated for proper rise? Hope the how baking works gets to the formula rules soon. I still have no idea what to look for cake-formula wise

I think a low dense cake is a result of a combination of errors: formulation, improper mixing, high finished batter temperature, not enough cake batter to properly fill pans, too high oven temperature that sets cake batter too soon.

I don't use shortening, so cannot recommend a formula. You can try CIA’s baking textbook. I took an advance cake class some years ago; the formulas we used in class were all high ratio shortening.

Their book is mainly formulas, not a lot on techniques since that is taught in class. I think it's a good resource book for formulas in general to have in your library I have an older edition, so cannot say what the recent edition is like.


 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
I just got my Magic Parish cake pans 8x2". I'm waiting on the (2) 6x2" and the square 4.5x4.5 + 10" pan.

20230823_171201.jpg


I must say I definitely can tell a difference in their quality compared to the Fat Daddio Anodized Aluminum. They feel somewhat more luxurious - and I'm happy I got them. I have already sold off the 3 of the 8x3" fat daddios (recouped my loss here since I barely used them). I'm left with 1 6 inch pan and 1 10 inch pan.

I am also pretty glad I opted for the 2" pans....the 3" seemed a bit beyond my scope. The only reason I got it was due to Stella Parks claims of "amazing baking" lol. It seems most people don't even properly fill their 3" pans. They fill it half way and still don't get 2" layers...very unusual.

My all in cost on these pans will probably come out to $130 after shipping ($10 each pan give or take after shipping).

One of the square ones is going back due to a dent.

The baking strips fit perfectly - but I heard one does not need a baking strip with "heavier gauge" pans? I think it can't hurt to use them anyways.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
I just got my Magic Parish cake pans 8x2". I'm waiting on the (2) 6x2" and the square 4.5x4.5 + 10" pan.

20230823_171201.jpg


I must say I definitely can tell a difference in their quality compared to the Fat Daddio Anodized Aluminum. They feel somewhat more luxurious - and I'm happy I got them. I have already sold off the 3 of the 8x3" fat daddios (recouped my loss here since I barely used them). I'm left with 1 6 inch pan and 1 10 inch pan.

I am also pretty glad I opted for the 2" pans....the 3" seemed a bit beyond my scope. The only reason I got it was due to Stella Parks claims of "amazing baking" lol. It seems most people don't even properly fill their 3" pans. They fill it half way and still don't get 2" layers...very unusual.

My all in cost on these pans will probably come out to $130 after shipping ($10 each pan give or take after shipping).

One of the square ones is going back due to a dent.

The baking strips fit perfectly - but I heard one does not need a baking strip with "heavier gauge" pans? I think it can't hurt to use them anyways.

1) The baking strips fit perfectly - but I heard one does not need a baking strip with "heavier gauge" pans?”

Always use the baking strips. Cake batter in contact with the hot metal bakes first. The sides and bottom bake first. Cloth cake strips work by regulating the heat of the metal; keeping the sides evenly heated. If they are not used, the sides set too fast, the raw center continues to rise, resulting in a domed cake.

I always soak the cloth baking strips for a good amount of time to ensure they are thoroughly wet. Then squeeze out excess water and wrap pans just before filling.

Also remember to bake at 325°F rather than 350°F as indicated on most recipes. A few years ago, a professional baker asked what he could do with the cut off domed tops of his cake. He was tired of wasting his money on ingredients for cake, only to cut off and throw 20% of the cake in the trash. I responded by telling him to stop Baking domed cakes. I recommended he reduce oven temperature and try cloth strips. He later responded that cloth strips weren’t practical given the number of cakes they bake. But the reduction of oven temperature alone stopped the cakes from doming—and ended the waste of time and money of throwing cake tops in the trash




2) “$10 each pan give or take after shipping”

Really not a bad price. I was in the restaurant supply store earlier this week and looked at the price of cake pans. That store only carries uncoated Winco, which is a lot thinner than Parrish Magic Line. The 8” rounds Wincos were about $8.

3) “…Stella Parks claims of "amazing baking"

I am a huge fan of Stella Parks. But never understood her approach to cake baking.

This photo is Stella Parks’ cake. She loves Fat Daddio despite the pans over-conduction of heat. And it’s not just the formation of awful dry brown crust and so much heat it domes the cake, but what it does to the crumb of the cake. This cake would be lighter and fluffier if it rose evenlyThese pans perform terribly.

IMG_4480.jpeg


I hope you enjoy baking in your new cake pans.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
1) The baking strips fit perfectly - but I heard one does not need a baking strip with "heavier gauge" pans?”

Always use the baking strips. Cake batter in contact with the hot metal bakes first. The sides and bottom bake first. Cloth cake strips work by regulating the heat of the metal; keeping the sides evenly heated. If they are not used, the sides set too fast, the raw center continues to rise, resulting in a domed cake.

I always soak the cloth baking strips for a good amount of time to ensure they are thoroughly wet. Then squeeze out excess water and wrap pans just before filling.

Also remember to bake at 325°F rather than 350°F as indicated on most recipes. A few years ago, a professional baker asked what he could do with the cut off domed tops of his cake. He was tired of wasting his money on ingredients for cake, only to cut off and throw 20% of the cake in the trash. I responded by telling him to stop Baking domed cakes. I recommended he reduce oven temperature and try cloth strips. He later responded that cloth strips weren’t practical given the number of cakes they bake. But the reduction of oven temperature alone stopped the cakes from doming—and ended the waste of time and money of throwing cake tops in the trash




2) “$10 each pan give or take after shipping”

Really not a bad price. I was in the restaurant supply store earlier this week and looked at the price of cake pans. That store only carries uncoated Winco, which is a lot thinner than Parrish Magic Line. The 8” rounds Wincos were about $8.

3) “…Stella Parks claims of "amazing baking"

I am a huge fan of Stella Parks. But never understood her approach to cake baking.

This photo is Stella Parks’ cake. She loves Fat Daddio despite the pans over-conduction of heat. And it’s not just the formation of awful dry brown crust and so much heat it domes the cake, but what it does to the crumb of the cake. This cake would be lighter and fluffier if it rose evenlyThese pans perform terribly.



I hope you enjoy baking in your new cake pans.

Thank you!

Wanted to run something by you real quick.

The Magic Line special order pans I got - most were great condition. However 2 of the 8x8 pans seem to have scuff marks and a slight dent (like a dot) on the side. Should I make the retailer refund/replace these?

20230901_175246.jpg


Same pan from the inside angle

20230901_175251.jpg



One of the pans has scuffs inside the pan

20230901_175208.jpg


Would this significantly impact baking quality of this pan? Seems like the aluminum got scratched off here....

Not sure if it's worth the hassle...


Very happy with my new cake pan drawer

Went to this

20230901_175415.jpg


FROM THIS

20230901_180002.jpg


Yummy rusted and warped pans (wilton)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
4,068
Reaction score
2,081
Thank you!

Wanted to run something by you real quick.

The Magic Line special order pans I got - most were great condition. However 2 of the 8x8 pans seem to have scuff marks and a slight dent (like a dot) on the side. Should I make the retailer refund/replace these?

20230901_175246.jpg


Same pan from the inside angle

20230901_175251.jpg



One of the pans has scuffs inside the pan

20230901_175208.jpg


Would this significantly impact baking quality of this pan? Seems like the aluminum got scratched off here....

Not sure if it's worth the hassle...


Very happy with my new cake pan drawer

Went to this

20230901_175415.jpg


FROM THIS

20230901_180002.jpg


Yummy rusted and warped pans (wilton)

That does not look like a Parrish Magic Pan.

Parrish square pans have sharp
clean smooth seams. That's what makes their pans superior. I’ve purchased the square pans from restaurant supply stores. I’ve purchased some removable bottom round pans from Sweet Treats Supply.


This is a photo from Sweet Treats. You can see the seams are smooth. It’s been about five years since I purchased a square Perrish pan. Still, I’d be shocked if the quality dropped that significantly. If you purchased on Amazon, it could be a counterfeit.

I would definitely send those pans back and demand a refund.

IMG_4516.png
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Hi NorCal thanks for the update

I can confirm they're definitely magic line Parrish pans. I'm in California and I went to their actual store in Gardena and it's the same looking pans there. I think they got rid of their smooth outside edges...but they seem sharp enough?

These ones I purchased weren't from Amazon. Direct from cake supply store online. But I forgot a pan and went to the store while I was near LA.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Similar Threads


Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
6,569
Messages
47,304
Members
5,508
Latest member
sharmajiya

Latest Threads

Top