The Science Behind Chewy Cookies with Bread Flour

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oh, @Norcalbaker59
I'm curious, do you practise flattening your cookie tops (of the balled cookie dough) before baking. and do you bang the tray during baking? (a la vanilla bean Baker)
 
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oh, @Norcalbaker59
I'm curious, do you practise flattening your cookie tops (of the balled cookie dough) before baking. and do you bang the tray during baking? (a la vanilla bean Baker)

Depends on the type of cookie. Some cookies need help in flattening, like my peanut butter cookie. Others will spread during baking. The ingredients will determine if the cookie spreads on its own or not.

Any time you have a low protein flour and white sugar cookie, it will spread into a very thin cookie on its own.

My peanut butter cookie will stay in a ball because it is made with higher protein flour and has a lot of crunchy peanut butter that has a binder in it.

Spread of a cookie is determined by protein level in the flour. Remember, there is no gluten in flour, only the proteins, gliadin and glutenin, that must bind with water molecules to form a gluten network.

The proteins, the water content, in combination with added sugar determines the spread of the cookie. These all effect dough elasticity and extensibility.

Fat content does not effect the spread of the cookie.

Another factor is the cultivar of the flour. The cultivar seems to make a difference in baking where the amount of damage to the starch is concerned. More damage to the starch during baking results in increased water absorption. That effects starch gelatinization rate, which in turns changes thickening and setting of the dough; which deceases spread.

My chocolate chip cookie is made with higher protein flour (11.5%), but the high sugar content and the type of sugars (brown and granulated sugars) allows for some spread of the dough. So I do not have to flatten it.

This is the cookie dough before baking

CEBAFF20-187C-438D-9468-7B3DF89861EF.jpeg





This is mid way through baking. You can see the edges are beginning to thicken and set. Even though there is a lot more dough to “melt” down, it will not spread much more.

E4B4C88E-7EA0-4C7A-B914-8DEBF1E9DCDF.jpeg



Fully baked, these are large cookies, 70g each 4” in diameter. The center is nice and thick.

992BF20B-A501-4C53-904F-8874087FD170.jpeg


It still produces a thick edges as well

CC929351-186E-4784-BCDC-1D1415CF2D9A.jpeg
 
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Thanks for the close-us! :Do_O the pics explain a lot!

I'm re-reading your comment to ToastedPine and your above reply. It's quite a bit to digest. Haven't found my Eureka! moment.

what i can immediately digest is:
1.

Any time you have a low protein flour and white sugar cookie, it will spread into a very thin cookie on its own.


I had an earlier comment:
Was browsing for info on invert sugar and flours effect on cookie dough, or how to get a chewier cookie dough. Food Network is saying that cake flour gets them a chewier cookie - did they get it correct?

Is a thinner cookie always a chewy cookie?


Am i understanding the description for chewy correctly - more jaw action & chomping...
Whereas, crisp is the crunchy snap effect...


With the bread flour, I felt that the cookie was chewier. I'm wondering why a lower protein cake flour would make the cookie chewier?

Is it correct to say that a thin cookie does not equate to a chewy or crispier cookie. It's just a matter of height?


The sugar, not the gluten content of the flour is key to a chewy cookie. Sugar is hygroscopic, meaning it attracts water from its environment. It’s competes for free water in the dough, plus pulls water from the environment.

Got it!

As such it inhibits gluten development.

I'm struggling to the effects of a weak/slow gluten development on the cookie. Does this mean that the cookie is chewier instead of crispier? Or it means cookie will spread and be thin?

But the gluten isn’t the only aspect of the structure of baked goods. Starch gelatinization is what determines how a baked goods actually sets. And sugar effects starch gelatinization since it changes the water in the dough. Another factor is the cultivar of the flour. The cultivar seems to make a difference in baking where the amount of damage to the starch is concerned. More damage to the starch during baking results in increased water absorption. That effects starch gelatinization rate, which in turns changes thickening and setting of the dough; which deceases spread.

If everything is kept the same, and i just added more white sugar, does that mean my cookie gets softer and flatter since it affects the gluten network and the starch gelatinization?

The type of sugar also determines the cookie’s texture since brown sugar with the molasses is acidic and interacts with baking soda (alkaline) and graduated sugar is neutral. So brown sugar and invert sugars will produce a chewy cookie regardless of gluten content; granulated sugar will produce a crispy cookie.
does the brown sugar & invert sugar produce a chewy cookie only because of interaction with the baking soda?or because they draw more moisture than white sugar?

Spread of a cookie is determined by protein level in the flour. Remember, there is no gluten in flour, only the proteins, gliadin and glutenin, that must bind with water molecules to form a gluten network.
the Gluten network is what gives the cookie structure / height?

The proteins, the water content, in combination with added sugar determines the spread of the cookie. These all effect dough elasticity and extensibility.

the weaker the gluten network, the more the spread?

Fat content does not effect the spread of the cookie.
Hahah! I got this! no questions for this.


This is a rare time that I managed to get the chocolate chip DDT under 20C/68F.
Outcome of reducing egg from 35% to 30%. Left cookie does not spread as much. The crinkly skin is slightly more visible, but not much.
IMG_2785.jpg


close up of the crinklier skin. but not that obvious. likely because I add 8% vanilla essence to both dough.
IMG_2778.jpg


Cross section of the less eggy 30% cookie
IMG_2779.jpg


Vs the 35% egg cookie cross section
IMG_2780.jpg


the white cookies has 18% hydration and no invert sugar- the crinkles are more visible!
DBF3FA6D-8F74-47F9-B4B8-7DEFB6AADE69.JPG


Can't say that I am happy with the cookie results though. bread flour seems unpleasant now with the larger size and longer bake time. :) though i like the new cookie size of 42g.

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There are two proteins in flour: gliadin and glutenin. When they bind with water molecules, they create a matrix that we call a gluten network.
  • Gliadin gives dough its extensibility (stretching) properties
  • Glutenin gives dough its elasticity (retraction) properties

The stronger the gluten network, and depending on the other ingredients, the thicker and chewier the cookie. The weaker the gluten network, and depending on the other ingredients, the thinner and crisper the cookie. A low protein flour cannot produce a chewy cookie.

“Chewy” refers to the textural quality of biting into the cookie. It can be described as a bite with a springy texture and some resistance that requires repeated chewing to swallow. Consumers are so picky about food texture, in the food industry they actually test the quality of food texture so companies can reformulate for texture that is favored by consumers.

If the FoodNetwork stated cake flour is used to make a chewy cookie, they are incorrect. Cake flour is very low in protein. As such, it cannot produce a strong gluten network (robust elasticity and extensibility) so it cannot produce a chewy cookie—or any baked good for that matter. A cookie made with cake flour has a soft bite, no spring or resistance when chewed, and easily swallowed.

Low protein flour and granulated sugar result in a thin crispy cookie because as I just mentioned, low protein flour cannot produce robust elasticity and extensibility. Sugar acts as a tenderizers, further softening the cookie.

The reason most thin cookies are crispy is the granulated sugar in the formula. The granulated sugar not only causes the cookie to spread thin, but it triggers the intense Maillard reaction that results in a crispy cookie.

Sugar is a tenderizer because it is hygroscopic, meaning it draws water from the environment. Initially it will pull free water from the dough. Then after the cookie is baked, it will pull water from the air. You can see the hygroscopic effects of sugar by leaving an unwrapped piece of hard candy out on the countertop. After a day or two it will become sticky. That is caused by the water molecules in the air binding with the sugar molecules. When too much sugar is added to baked goods, they will be weakened. Cookies and cakes will be crumbly. You can always tell a cake with too much sugar in the formula because the cake walls will be wavy and deformed.


Brown sugar (molasses) is acidic; the acidity effects both the egg and gluten; it increases the speed in which egg coagulates and gluten develops. That in turn inhibits the spread of a cookie and changes the texture to chewy. If you compare various types of cookies, you will see the use of specific sugars. Chocolate chip cookies will always contain a combination of granulated and brown sugar. Sugar cookies will always contain granulated sugar. Gingersnaps will always contain the invert sugar molasses in some form. The sugar(s) used is by design—it creates characteristics unique to that cookie because of the chemical reaction between the sugar and the ingredients.


I’m not a fan of high gluten flour in chocolate chips at all either. The interior of the cookie looks excellent. But it looks like there is still too much moisture in the dough given the smooth top. Since variables come into play, let me adjust everything for you. Maybe with your ingredients you need to start with less over all sugar and egg.

  • 70% unsalted butter, 83% butterfat
  • 45% granulated cane sugar
  • 60% light brown cane sugar
  • 30% whole egg
  • 3% vanilla paste or extract
  • 100% unbleached flour 11.5% protein
  • 1.5% baking soda
  • 2% salt
  • 125% chopped dark chocolate (or to preference)




Batch

  • 126g unsalted butter 83% butterfat
  • 72g granulated cane sugar
  • 108 light brown cane sugar
  • 54g whole egg*
  • 5g vanilla paste or extract
  • 180 unbleached flour 11.5% protein
  • 3g baking soda (approx 1/2 teaspoons US)
  • 4g salt (approx 3/4 teaspoon US)
  • 225g chopped dark chocolate (or to preference)



Total dough weight 777g

*an egg in the shell that weighs 62g should yield about 54g of raw egg



Maybe reduce your creaming time to about 3 ½ minutes. You may be over creaming your butter as well.



====================



About baked goods texture testing




An example of what a cake with too much sugar in the formula looks like. Scroll down to the pic of the stacked un-iced layers. Note the wavy deformed structure of the cake walls. That is a sign of poorly developed gluten and defective starch gelatinization during baking. I would not use this cake in a stacked or tiered cake because that cake formula is too weak to stand on its own. Essentially the same thing happens when too much sugar is in a cookie dough.

 
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Love it when older threads pop up with recent additions! It's going to pour with rain here all day tomorrow but I have things to make cookies with! Sugar-wise I don't have granulated sugar but do have caster sugar, I have Demerara but less keen on that. Also have light and dark muscovado sugars. AND golden syrup! I'm sure I have black treacle somewhere too, which is probably not the right thing for cookies but you get it in the same tin as golden syrup so I'll think of something other than gingerbread to make with it! My little girl is allergic to dairy so I'll probably do these dairy-free and get her to help me. It's not quite the same but the butter sub we have is pretty good.
 
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@Emmie have fun baking and let us know the results please!

@Norcalbaker59 wow! Thank you! Now I get it! :D I've copied and pasted the above as notes. please use this in the chapter of your book on cookies. It's very clear information.

Maybe reduce your creaming time to about 3 ½ minutes. You may be over creaming your butter as well.
I'm creaming the butter the way you wrote out, using the minimum speed or lower speeds. It's always the DDT that kills me. But I've taken to chilling every ingredient. :cool: and sometimes DDT is correct.
Set the timer for 2 minutes. The 113g cold butter should finished in this short of time. So your first half of beating can always be 2 minutes.
Scrape down the sides AND bottom of the bowl ONCE.
Set the timer for another 1 minute. I actually set my timer for 2 minutes but you have a very hot kitchen.
Continue beating on the medium setting.
But watch the progress. It may be the butter is finished beating before the 1 minute. It may need to go a bit longer.
It’s the second half of beating which the timing is unknown. This is where your experience as a baker comes into play.

Sorry, I should have written out my percentage. Looking at it now, I probably messed up by using too much invert sugar. my total sugar was 93%
100.0%13% flour
70.2%Butter
36.7%granulated sugar
36.7%light brown sugar
21.3%golden syrup
1.4%baking soda
2.1%salt
28.0%eggs
108.8%choc chip
0.7%expresso powder
5.3%vanilla extract

Going to make a batch with yours. Thank you for making a percentage for me.
  • 70% unsalted butter, 83% butterfat
  • 45% granulated cane sugar
  • 60% light brown cane sugar
  • 30% whole egg
  • 3% vanilla paste or extract
  • 100% unbleached flour 11.5% protein
  • 1.5% baking soda
  • 2% salt
  • 125% chopped dark chocolate (or to preference)
And another with 85% total sugar
  • 70% unsalted butter, 83% butterfat
  • 35% granulated cane sugar
  • 50% light brown cane sugar
  • 30% whole egg
  • 3% vanilla paste or extract
  • 100% unbleached flour 11.5% protein
  • 1.5% baking soda
  • 2% salt
  • 125% chopped dark chocolate (or to preference)
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge @Norcalbaker59 !
 
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I might have to do a mix of plain and bread flour as our bread flour is about 12% and plain flour about 9.5%. At the moment I have a tantruming toddler so cookies still might not happen!
 
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Hi @Norcalbaker59 ,

I've made a batch of dough based on your batch weight, and a second with even less sugar. Dough is resting in the fridge...

So i decided to take on Stella Park's creaming with colouring and made half batch of her cookies.

AP100.0%160g
Butter70.3%112.5g
GS87.5%140g
salt1.6%2.5g
bp3.1%5g
eggs15.6%25g
VE4.7%7.5g

Have I over creamed or creamed correctly?

Added colouring to the sugar
I chilled my butter, granulated sugar & mixing bowl before I cream

At 01:00, butter and sugar are still separate chunks
IMG_2830 2.jpg


03:30, scrapping down

IMG_2832.jpg


05:30
IMG_2836.jpg


05:30 end of creaming, close up. The DDT is 69F/ 20.5C
IMG_2838.jpg


IMG_2840.jpg


And here's the outcome of Stella Park's Sugar cookie - albeit very pink. I used 2 drops of americolor pink.

IMG_2820.jpg
IMG_2819.jpg


Cookie crumb when broken apart vs knife cut
IMG_2824.jpg


IMG_2826.jpg


Same cookie, baked for a slightly shorter time. Would you consider the inside as undercooked? I think I made a chewy cookie with this "undercooked" cookie. :)
IMG_2827.jpg


Looking forward to your feedback. :)
 
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It is difficult to tell if the butter is over creamed because the dye obscures the natural color and the texture of the butter. From one angle the butter looks over creamed, from above when the thermometer is in the butter. In the photo looking straight down in the bowl, it is hard to tell. The texture looks okay, but it looks very greasy, like the butter was breaking down. The temperature is fine, but I wonder if the long beating time of 5:30 didn’t damage the butter.

There was only 113 g butter in the bowl; 5:30 is a long time to beat that little butter. The other thing is the small amount of butter just get churned at the bottom of the bowl.

The reason is the rotation of the mixer head, the shape of the paddle and the bowl are all designed to work in sync so the edges of paddle is to make a certain number of contact points against the inside of the bowl as the mixer head rotates. That force spins the ingredients into and through itself. Because the mixer bowl is rounded and narrower at the bottom, if a low volume of ingredients are in the bowl, the paddle cannot use the side of the bowl to spin the ingredients. The ingredients just sink the the bottom of the bowl. The force just grinds it into the bowl of the bowl.

Volume is also important because the planetary action generates friction; friction generates heat. If you are creaming a small amount of butter, it is better to use a hand mix instead of a stand mixer.


When you scale a recipe, you don’t change the baker’s percentages, they are a constant. This is way to use baker’s percentages to scale a recipe.

I will use the formula use posted.





Step 1: Add up total baker’s percentages
100.0% flour
70.2% butter
36.7% granulated sugar
36.7% brown sugar
21.3% golden syrup
1.4% baking soda
2.1% salt
28.0% eggs
108.8% chocolate chips
0.7% espresso powder
5.3% vanilla extract
411.2% total baker’s percentages


Step 2: multiply number of cookies by weight of each cookie

for example: 24 cookies, 40g each

24 x 40 = 960

total weight of dough required: 960 gram. So round up to 1000 g total dough required

Step 3: divide total weight of dough required into total baker’s percentages

1000 ÷ 411.2 = 2.421

2.431 is the multiplier to use with the baker’s percentages

Step 4: multiply baker’s percentage of each ingredient with multiplier 2.431

2.431 x 100 = 243.1 flour
2.431 x 70.2 = 170.65 butter
2.431 x 36.7 = 89.21 granulated sugar
2.431 x 36.7 = 89.21 brown sugar
2.431 x 21.3 = 51.78 golden syrup
2.431 x 1.4 = 3.40 baking soda
2.431 x 2.1 = 5.10 salt
2.431 x 28.0 = 68.06 eggs
2.431 x 108.8 = 264.49 chocolate chips
2.431 x 0.7 = 1.70 espresso powder
2.431 x 5.3 = 12.88 vanilla extract


Step 5: round up/down numbers to finalize the formula

13% flour243g
Butter171g
granulated sugar89g
light brown sugar89g
golden syrup52mL
baking soda3g
salt5g
eggs68mL
choc chip265g
expresso powder2g
vanilla extract13mL
total baker’s percentages 411.2
total required dough weight1000


Whatever number of cookies you need, just multiply the number of cookies you want to bake. When you a reliable formula in baker’s percentages, you just use these steps to scale up or down. The baker’s percentages never change, so the dough will be the same batch after batch no matter how many you mix. And the baker’s percentages make it easy for you to customize your baking orders to demand.

just an aside, 21% invert sugar is too high. I don’t know if I wrote that invert sugar should not excess 15% in a cookie dough. Especially a dough with brown sugar, which also contains an invert sugar, because it adds too much moisture to the cookie dough.





This will give you a visual of planetary mixing action. As the mixer head rotates around, the edge of the paddle makes contact with the inside of the bowl. When there is a high volume of ingredients in the bowl, the action pushes against the ingredients. and the force spins the ingredients into and through itself. When there is a low volume of ingredients, the paddle does not have enough to push to against and spin through itself, so the ingredients get stuck at the bottom of the narrow bowl.
3C8CD163-3C2E-4657-923D-50AD080D8ACE.png





The two things you are looking for are a ligher change in color and an expansion in volume. But in doing so, you don’t want to stay close to 68° (20°C). Notice there is no greasy film in the bowl or on the butter. This is a 4.5 qt mixing bowl. I used 226g butter in the bowl. I never use less than this amount in a bowl this size. I won’t cream this amount a butter in my 6 qt mixer, it is just not enough volume. With my 6 qt, I use a 455 g butter minimum.
18FCD6D0-D43D-4B0A-B0D7-B9772639F55B.jpeg



This is butter creamed with both light brown sugar and granulated sugar. The butter has body, fullness and texture. And it is lighter in color. Can you see at the back of the bowl that darker smudge of butter above the creamed butter? That contrast between the darker butter and lighter fluffier butter is the transition from almost creamed to creamed butter.
B9ED13F1-D45E-485D-8F1C-3CA0A40AA383.jpeg
 
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Step 2: multiply number of cookies by weight of each cookie

for example: 24 cookies, 40g each

24 x 40 = 960

total weight of dough required: 960 gram. So round up to 1000 g total dough required

Step 3: divide total weight of dough required into total baker’s percentages

1000 ÷ 411.2 = 2.421

2.431 is the multiplier to use with the baker’s percentages

Ah I see... Thanks @Norcalbaker59 , I was using the baker's percentage to see how ingredients compared to the flour, but just dividing up the actual weights to test small batches. I didn't know how to work with a end total weight of dough in mind. This makes sense now.


The two things you are looking for are a ligher change in color and an expansion in volume. But in doing so, you don’t want to stay close to 68° (20°C). Notice there is no greasy film in the bowl or on the butter. This is a 4.5 qt mixing bowl. I used 226g butter in the bowl. I never use less than this amount in a bowl this size. I won’t cream this amount a butter in my 6 qt mixer, it is just not enough volume. With my 6 qt, I use a 455 g butter minimum.
Got it - i'd put aside my stand mixer for now, till i happy with the recipe for to make a larger batch. Mine's a 4.5 qt. :) back to the hand mixer...

This is butter creamed with both light brown sugar and granulated sugar. The butter has body, fullness and texture. And it is lighter in color. Can you see at the back of the bowl that darker smudge of butter above the creamed butter? That contrast between the darker butter and lighter fluffier butter is the transition from almost creamed to creamed butter.

Ahhhhhhh..... Thanks for the pic
Honestly, i remembered see this transition with the hand mixer. I'll be definitely using it for the trials.
:D

DD94F015-6F75-438A-B057-1075A7DE9B86.jpeg


This is probably the most cookies I’ve baked in one sitting!

The pink seed cookie has 90%sugar and the normal cookie is based on your percentage (100% sugar) you wrote out yesterday. The difference is almost negligible- but the ‘air holes’ on the cookies look slightly bigger. Taste is the same to my palate. Going to push the sugar down to 80% to see what happens.

Happier with how this taste!

Newbie question, but when one uses as fisher/cookie scoop, do you ball it like an icecream? I scrape away the excess so that it is a hemisphere. And weigh each one. Is that how you will do that?

TGIF!

B2C9C4F3-DA7E-475E-9133-1CEB190B9291.jpeg


5D511DD1-BB56-4EBB-B470-EC123E0AC653.jpeg
 
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Ah I see... Thanks @Norcalbaker59 , I was using the baker's percentage to see how ingredients compared to the flour, but just dividing up the actual weights to test small batches. I didn't know how to work with a end total weight of dough in mind. This makes sense now.



Got it - i'd put aside my stand mixer for now, till i happy with the recipe for to make a larger batch. Mine's a 4.5 qt. :) back to the hand mixer...



Ahhhhhhh..... Thanks for the pic
Honestly, i remembered see this transition with the hand mixer. I'll be definitely using it for the trials.
:D

View attachment 3632

This is probably the most cookies I’ve baked in one sitting!

The pink seed cookie has 90%sugar and the normal cookie is based on your percentage (100% sugar) you wrote out yesterday. The difference is almost negligible- but the ‘air holes’ on the cookies look slightly bigger. Taste is the same to my palate. Going to push the sugar down to 80% to see what happens.

Happier with how this taste!

Newbie question, but when one uses as fisher/cookie scoop, do you ball it like an icecream? I scrape away the excess so that it is a hemisphere. And weigh each one. Is that how you will do that?

TGIF!

View attachment 3633

View attachment 3634

the cookies are looking better. How long are you chilling the dough after mixing.

what is all your sugar ratios now?

80% maybe too low. You can’t reduce sugar just to taste. Sugar plays a lot of roles. When you add too little, the cookie will become dry and stale very quickly.


Role of sugar in baked goods
flavor - sweet & caramel flavors
humectant - binds with free water
tenderizer - aerates dough in creaming
preservative - extends shelf life
bite - creates texture
color - maillard reaction



I make a clean round dough ball because the rounder the dough, the more uniform the cookie. Doesn’t matter if callets or chopped chocolate is used. If the dough isn’t rounded out, the cookie edges will baked unevenly.

95BA713C-BCC4-4075-873D-FA0133297E10.jpeg

C0306B72-8A7F-4986-ABE7-75229467C157.jpeg

9266F013-F795-424A-BFF5-9C4F4FC1C45D.jpeg


03BAEA4F-1D50-4801-B729-996F1798646E.jpeg

9948E5DD-64AF-4FA8-B020-2A37267CAFC1.jpeg
 
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the cookies are looking better. How long are you chilling the dough after mixing.

what is all your sugar ratios now?

80% maybe too low. You can’t reduce sugar just to taste. Sugar plays a lot of roles. When you add too little, the cookie will become dry and stale very quickly.


Role of sugar in baked goods
flavor - sweet & caramel flavors
humectant - binds with free water
tenderizer - aerates dough in creaming
preservative - extends shelf life
bite - creates texture
color - maillard reaction



I make a clean round dough ball because the rounder the dough, the more uniform the cookie. Doesn’t matter if callets or chopped chocolate is used. If the dough isn’t rounded out, the cookie edges will baked unevenly.

View attachment 3635
View attachment 3636
View attachment 3637

View attachment 3638
View attachment 3639
When they start to bake, they look like little ghost cookies! :D

We'd didn't make cookies in the end as I realised I didn't have any dairy-free chocolate chips. We made Jammie Dodgers instead - a firm favourite here. The only dairy-free thing I have in the house I could add are mini marshmallows. Would they work in cookies?

Cookies are looking great @ShuBunny !

Jammie Dodgers are almost gone! :oops:

35D892FB-14DC-49BB-9C68-F2889E8C4C86.png
 
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@Emmie thanks!!! I still have a way to go ❤️

@Norcalbaker59 thanks for the details about the role of sugar. I chilled the dough overnight/8 hours in the fridge. Then formed the dough into balls and freezed the balls for at least 30mins before baking.

I’m using the oxo cookie scoop to form the semi sphere. Not full round balls. Is there anything I should be doing to make the cookies look more like yours?
 
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When they start to bake, they look like little ghost cookies! :D

We'd didn't make cookies in the end as I realised I didn't have any dairy-free chocolate chips. We made Jammie Dodgers instead - a firm favourite here. The only dairy-free thing I have in the house I could add are mini marshmallows. Would they work in cookies?

Cookies are looking great @ShuBunny !

Jammie Dodgers are almost gone! :oops:

View attachment 3641


@Emmie, Jammie Dodgers, I love that name! We call those linzers here. They look really good.
 
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@Emmie thanks!!! I still have a way to go ❤️

@Norcalbaker59 thanks for the details about the role of sugar. I chilled the dough overnight/8 hours in the fridge. Then formed the dough into balls and freezed the balls for at least 30mins before baking.

I’m using the oxo cookie scoop to form the semi sphere. Not full round balls. Is there anything I should be doing to make the cookies look more like yours?


The sugar has been significantly reduced.

The ratio to sugar and butter is significantly less now. So more water molecules available in the butter to dissolve the sugar.

So all that time creaming is probably dissolving nearly all of the sugar into the butter. And then with the resting time the rest of the sugar is dissolved.


Reduce your creaming time slightly. I’m thinking you’re probably over creaming definitely now because there’s just not enough sugar.

If you’re using any invert sugar reduce the amount to 10% to further reduce moisture.

Before mixing, reserve 20% of the granulated and brown sugar. Then when the butter and sugar is creamed add the remaining sugar and mix it in for about 15 seconds. This will leave the sugar undissolved. It will dissolve during baking.

Then finish mixing the dough as normal.

Also are you using cane sugar? Type of sugar makes a difference.

Baking stages of a cookie

92°F butter melts

Butter is an emulsion of fat and water; butter separates at this temperature.


The water heats, then turns to steam.


The steam expands the dough.


122°F (50°C) starch gelatinization begins


144°F (60°C) protein denaturalization begins.


310°F (155°C) maillard reactions occurs.



When the maillard reaction occurs the amino acids (proteins) and sugars break down then the two form into a single ring like structure. The new structure they form deflects light, so food has a distinctive golden caramelized color. But more important, when the amino acids and the sugars react together, they creates compounds that create new aromas and flavors. Flavors that we really like.


Beet sugar does not produce a good Maillard reaction.

This photo is from an article that was written on the difference between sugar beet sugar and sugar cane sugar. Beet sugar was used on the crème brûlée on the left; cane sugar was used on the cream brûlée on the right. They simple do not perform the same when subjected to heat. This is why most pastry chefs don’t use sugar beet sugar. The Maillard reaction is important for flavor
43076075-61CF-42FE-8B05-A2D41A5DDDCE.jpeg
 
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Forgot to add - the total sugar was at 100% and 90% for yesterday’s cookies

OK so I just saw this after I posted.

In most baked goods sugar is equal to or more than the weight of the flour.

When the weight drops below the weight of the flour, you have to look at how the other ingredients are then affecting the sugar role in the dough/batter.

Especially anything that has water in it.

We already reduced the egg, if your foot down to 28%? So we don’t want to adjust the egg anymore.

So you have to look at how the butter is affecting your reduction in sugar.
 
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hi @Norcalbaker59 ,

Hope you had a great weekend!

Thanks for all the pointers again - I'm going to use this tip:

Before mixing, reserve 20% of the granulated and brown sugar. Then when the butter and sugar is creamed add the remaining sugar and mix it in for about 15 seconds. This will leave the sugar undissolved. It will dissolve during baking.

and yes, I'm using cane sugar here!

Will cream with my hand mixer instead and watch the timing.

I'll use the percentages you provided last Thu, without reducing the butter or sugar, just changing the creaming technique:
12% flour100.0%
Butter70.0%
GS40.0%
LBS60.0%
salt2.2%
bs1.7%
eggs30.0%
choc chip125.0%
VE2.8%

Do you think using browned butter with the lesser hydration be a good idea?

:)
 
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Will cream with my hand mixer instead and watch the timing.

I'll use the percentages you provided last Thu, without reducing the butter or sugar, just changing the creaming technique:
12% flour100.0%
Butter70.0%
GS40.0%
LBS60.0%
salt2.2%
bs1.7%
eggs30.0%
choc chip125.0%
VE2.8%

This was creamed under 3 mins with a hand mixer,
the dough temp is under 68F before I added the reserve 20% of sugar.
this dough looked a lot less 'wet' compared to the earlier ones.
now chilling in the fridge.
IMG_2881.jpg
IMG_2882.jpg
 
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hi @Norcalbaker59 ,

Hope you had a great weekend!

Thanks for all the pointers again - I'm going to use this tip:



and yes, I'm using cane sugar here!

Will cream with my hand mixer instead and watch the timing.

I'll use the percentages you provided last Thu, without reducing the butter or sugar, just changing the creaming technique:
12% flour100.0%
Butter70.0%
GS40.0%
LBS60.0%
salt2.2%
bs1.7%
eggs30.0%
choc chip125.0%
VE2.8%

Do you think using browned butter with the lesser hydration be a good idea?

:)

when you brown butter, Break break the emulsion. you you break the emulsion you have a whole set of issues you have to deal with because now you have all those water molecules floating around from the butter. Let’s leave the butter alone for now while you work on getting the basic recipe down first
 

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