- Joined
- May 21, 2019
- Messages
- 248
- Reaction score
- 125
Subheading: The Quest for Tenderness
Hey, all. Sorry I flaked on the first pie crust chat
(that was a pun). I got caught up in other things as one does—but then, I also think we pretty well concluded the “fat” discussion of pie crusts, agreeing that type of fat doesn’t matter, so long as the percentage of fat to flour is correct.
I’d like to get back to the discussion with the second most controversial ingredient: the liquid. We’ve already talked at length about how U.S. pie recipes use woefully too little liquid. Why? They’re terrified of a tough crust and believe that less water = tender crust. So, U.S. recipes tell bakers to add a mere ¼C ice water to their flour. If the resulting dough falls to stick together, they advise dribbling in an extra tablespoon or two. This makes U.S. pie crust notoriously difficult to pull off (at least by novice bakers). We’ve all despaired over crumbly dough that rolls out jagged and patchy, and falls apart when we try to put it into the pie plate.
So here are some things I’d like to discuss in this thread:
(1) Water: How much should be used, and will too much make for a tough crust? If so, how do you make sure to hit that sweet spot? (I know, NorCal, percentages ...but what if you’re in a cabin in the woods without a scale? What should a perfectly hydrated pie dough feel like? Look like?) Also, “Ice Water.” Every recipe insists that the water be chilled. I understand that it’s important to keep the butter from melting...but how important is chilled water? Has anyone used room temp water and had a disaster?
(2) Vodka and the wildly successful vodka pie crust: Created by AKA, the vodka pie crust recipe gets to have it both ways: little water, but a lot of pliability. ¼ C ice water and ¼ C chilled vodka means you get 1/2C liquid in the dough, making it way easier to pat into a circle and, after resting in the refrigerator, rolling out into a nice thin crust without cracks. The vodka (and almost all the alcohol) evaporates in the baking, and you’ve got a low-water, presumably not-tough crust that’s easy to handle.
*Question: Have you used this recipe? What did you think of the results? I, myself, have made this. It’s an interesting experience to inhale vodka fumes while rolling out a pie dough but it does work and it works well. A very easy & serviceable pie crust.
(3) Acidic additives like vinegar, wine and lemon juice: These are added to the water and pie crust to make sure the pie crust stays tender (more fear of toughness there). There are also liquids that take the place of water like buttermilk, also meant to add tenderness but also some flavor, and egg.
*Question: Have you used these? Do you feel they made the crust more tender? In the case of buttermilk, did it add good flavor as well? What effect does an egg have on the dough and on the finished pie crust?
(4) Dissolving either/both the salt/sugar into the liquid: Some bakers advise that the salt/sugar be dissolved into the water, rather than added to the flour. Salt so that it gets distributed evenly and keeps the water in the freezer cold—and not turning to ice (NorCal’s very cool recommendation). Meanwhile, Julia Child advises dissolving that tablespoon of sugar into the water saying it helps to keep the pie crust (say it with me now) “Tender”.
*Question: Your thoughts on the practice of dissolving salt/sugar or both in the water? Would dissolving the sugar undermine it’s help in browning the crust, or will it do that whether dissolved in water or still in crystal form in the flour? And would dissolving the sugar keep the crust “tender”?
Discuss!
Hey, all. Sorry I flaked on the first pie crust chat
(that was a pun). I got caught up in other things as one does—but then, I also think we pretty well concluded the “fat” discussion of pie crusts, agreeing that type of fat doesn’t matter, so long as the percentage of fat to flour is correct. I’d like to get back to the discussion with the second most controversial ingredient: the liquid. We’ve already talked at length about how U.S. pie recipes use woefully too little liquid. Why? They’re terrified of a tough crust and believe that less water = tender crust. So, U.S. recipes tell bakers to add a mere ¼C ice water to their flour. If the resulting dough falls to stick together, they advise dribbling in an extra tablespoon or two. This makes U.S. pie crust notoriously difficult to pull off (at least by novice bakers). We’ve all despaired over crumbly dough that rolls out jagged and patchy, and falls apart when we try to put it into the pie plate.
So here are some things I’d like to discuss in this thread:
(1) Water: How much should be used, and will too much make for a tough crust? If so, how do you make sure to hit that sweet spot? (I know, NorCal, percentages
...but what if you’re in a cabin in the woods without a scale? What should a perfectly hydrated pie dough feel like? Look like?) Also, “Ice Water.” Every recipe insists that the water be chilled. I understand that it’s important to keep the butter from melting...but how important is chilled water? Has anyone used room temp water and had a disaster? (2) Vodka and the wildly successful vodka pie crust: Created by AKA, the vodka pie crust recipe gets to have it both ways: little water, but a lot of pliability. ¼ C ice water and ¼ C chilled vodka means you get 1/2C liquid in the dough, making it way easier to pat into a circle and, after resting in the refrigerator, rolling out into a nice thin crust without cracks. The vodka (and almost all the alcohol) evaporates in the baking, and you’ve got a low-water, presumably not-tough crust that’s easy to handle.
*Question: Have you used this recipe? What did you think of the results? I, myself, have made this. It’s an interesting experience to inhale vodka fumes while rolling out a pie dough
but it does work and it works well. A very easy & serviceable pie crust. (3) Acidic additives like vinegar, wine and lemon juice: These are added to the water and pie crust to make sure the pie crust stays tender (more fear of toughness there). There are also liquids that take the place of water like buttermilk, also meant to add tenderness but also some flavor, and egg.
*Question: Have you used these? Do you feel they made the crust more tender? In the case of buttermilk, did it add good flavor as well? What effect does an egg have on the dough and on the finished pie crust?
(4) Dissolving either/both the salt/sugar into the liquid: Some bakers advise that the salt/sugar be dissolved into the water, rather than added to the flour. Salt so that it gets distributed evenly and keeps the water in the freezer cold—and not turning to ice (NorCal’s very cool recommendation). Meanwhile, Julia Child advises dissolving that tablespoon of sugar into the water saying it helps to keep the pie crust (say it with me now) “Tender”.
*Question: Your thoughts on the practice of dissolving salt/sugar or both in the water? Would dissolving the sugar undermine it’s help in browning the crust, or will it do that whether dissolved in water or still in crystal form in the flour? And would dissolving the sugar keep the crust “tender”?
Discuss!
