I need the best chocolate chip cookie recipe

Discussion in 'Cookies' started by runner101, May 17, 2019.

  1. runner101

    runner101 New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey, I've been making chocolate chip cookies for about 8 years now and still have not come upon the recipe in which the cookie is very SWEET, GOLDEN BROWN, CHEWY ON THE INSIDE, Crispy on the outside, and is almost like a jumbo cookie. Anyone have a recipe that is bakery style?
     
    runner101, May 17, 2019
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California
    1. Do you bake by volume or by weight?

    2. Do you use sugar cane sugar or sugar beet sugar?

    3. Do you use unbleached flour or do you use bleach flour?

    4. Do you know the protein content of your flour?

    5. Do you use real chocolate are you using a chocolate chip?

    I can help you bake a better cookie but I got I have the answer to some of these questions first.

    But you need to understand also
    that the thick chewy big chocolate chip cookie only stays that way for a short time out of the oven. Bakeries keep the cookie slightly warm to enhance the eating pleasure… And to keep you coming back to the bakery to buy it. Bakeries also have access to ingredients, mainly emulsifiers that as a home baker you do not have access to. So you can produce a pretty good cookie at home but you’ll never be able to produce a bakery style cookie at home.
     
    Norcalbaker59, May 17, 2019
    #2
    arzoochaudhary likes this.
    1. Advertisements

  3. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Of all the chocolate-chip cookie recipes I've tried, the best (IMHO) is Mindy Segal's. Exactly as you describe, crispy on the outside, chewy on the inside, and the right sweetness to compliment whatever chocolate you choose to use (I like very bittersweet myself). The recipe recommends using chocolate disks instead of chips (which is *so* indulgent! chocolate in every bite for sure), but I just use chocolate chips. You can also decide for yourself whether you want to add the extra bit of flake salt she uses to heighten their flavor.

    I think one of the reasons these CC cookies come out so superior to others (again, IMHO) is that the instructions caution the baker not to overbeat the batter. You only mix till it all comes together. And the instructions also incorporate a rest period. Ideally, you should make them the evening before, leave them in the refrigerator overnight, and scoop them out the next morning. This allows the flavors to meld and the dough to chill enough that it's easy to scoop out.

    Note that the crispiness of the cookies will depend as much on what you bake them on as the recipe. Avoid baking mats, as those keep your cookies from the metal of the tray, and that helps with crispiness. Try different types of parchment/non-stick foil and see what gives you the crispiness you're after. If too crispy (not chewy enough), you might try a different cookie sheet or pan.

    I'll also mention that I like to scoop out raw cookies onto sheets and slip them into the freezer. Once frozen, I put these raw cookies into freezer bags. When I want a cookie or two (or more if company is coming), I just pop them on a tray and bake 'em up, usually for a few minutes longer because they started out frozen.

    Recipe here: http://www.midwestliving.com/recipe/mindy-segals-chocolate-chip-cookies/
     
    J13, Jun 8, 2019
    #3
  4. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California
    @J13 something just occurred to me. Last holiday I send a batch of Christmas cookies to a friend in Southern California. His favorite cookie is peanut butter. Since I normally don’t make a peanut butter cookie I created a recipe on the fly. And while I was making the dough, I was thinking about a candy from my childhood called Bit-O-Honey. And so on a fluke I decided to replace some of the sugar in the cookie with honey. It wasn’t much, only 15%.

    He said the cookie was excellent, both thick and chewy, and that his son also loved how chewy the cookie was. I was surprised the cookie was chewy since it was four days old by the time he received it.

    Honey is an invert sugar. Bakers have used invert sugars for decades to create a softer baked good. Reflecting back on that cookie, I’m wondering if the solution to the chewy chocolate chip cookie problem isn’t as simple as replacing a portion of the granulated sugar with invert sugar?

    I’ve made peanut butter cookies in the past and they’ve not been chewy days later. The only thing I did differently with the Christmas batch was add honey. So maybe adding invert sugar is the key to a chewy chocolate chip cookies as well.

    I have a nice big chunk of Callebaut milk chocolate in the pantry. And invert sugar is easy to make. All you have to do is mix sugar, water and cream of tartar together and heat the sugar to 236°F. When the weather cools off I’m going test it.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jun 10, 2019
    #4
  5. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    I will be fascinated to find out how they come out! Now that you've mentioned alternative sugars...I wonder about using, say molasses rather than brown sugar, something like that.
     
    J13, Jun 11, 2019
    #5
    Norcalbaker59 likes this.
  6. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California
    Yes, J13, an invert sugar is any sugar that has undergone a chemical change involving water molecules (hydrolysis) so it is less prone to crystallization. So molasses, and other liquid sugars like honey, corn syrup, and golden syrup will work— assuming my hypothesis is correct.

    I was thinking about replacing 15% to 20% of the sugar with invert sugar.

    Invert sugars are sweeter. So I have to take that into account. Invert sugars also retain more moisture than granulated and brown sugar. So that is also another consideration, how the increased moisture retention will affect the cookie during and after baking. I don’t want to undermine the structure of the cookie.

    Invert sugar made from granulated sugar is neutral. Corn syrup, and golden syrup have very light flavor. But molasses and honeys have distinct flavors when using alternative sugars you want to make sure they enhance your chocolate since good chocolate has their unique flavors and can be very expensive. So you don’t want to undercut good chocolate.


    Just an aside regarding molasses if you aren’t already aware of the difference of molasses...there’s real molasses and there’s blackstrap molasses. Blackstrap molasses is made from the third boil, so its very bitter. Also because blackstrap molasses is from the third boil, it has a lower moisture content. So it will effect how the sugars in your dough dissolve. If you use molasses in anything look for real molasses. Never use blackstrap molasses.

    My grandma was a southerner (from a little place called Step Rock, Arkansas). Southerners do not use blackstrap molasses in their baking because it tastes so wretched. I once accidentally bought a jar of blackstrap. When I tasted it I was like, “OMG, is this tar?!!”

    Since we’re on the subject of sugar, I only use cane sugar in my baking. Sugar beet sugar does not caramelize very well at all. A lot of pastry chefs and commercial bakeries won’t use sugar beet sugar for this reason. In fact they cannot make brown sugar with sugar beet since to make a brown sugar they add molasses into the sugar after it’s refined. But the molasses from the sugarbeet is so inferior it will ruin the sugar If they add it back in. So they use the cane sugar molasses to make brown sugar from sugar beet brown sugar.

    The other reason I use cane sugar is all sugar beet sugar is GMO. And since it’s a root vegetable the likelihood of it absorbing the glyphosate from the Roundup weed killer is greater. Monsantos and proponents of chemical herbicides insist the majority of the glyphosate binds to the soil, so very little is absorbed into the root crops. Nearly all crops are cultivated with some form of herbicide, even the organics. But for me the sugarbeet sugar has too many negatives. It caramelizes poorly. Its all GMO. It’s a root vegetable so potentially absorbs more glyphosate.

    Currently these are my chocolate chip cookie ratios. It hasn’t change much in the past four or five years since a cookie is a cookie. I found unbleached all purpose flour works fine. I know there’s a bunch of recipes on the Internet about mixing bread flour with cake flour and yada yada yada. I’ve tested so many batches with different combinations of flours and none produced a cookie that moved heaven and earth. A good unbleached flour, good butter. Good chocolate, and plenty of it. And you got a good chocolate chunk cookie.


    I use organic unbleached flour with 11.5% protein, malted; cane sugar; Plugra unsalted butter, Diamond brand kosher salt.


    100% flour
    1.8% baking soda
    2% salt
    105% sugar
    75% brown sugar
    30% granulated sugar
    70% unsalted butter
    20% egg
    4.5% vanilla paste
    Semi-sweet or bittersweet chocolate*

    Batch:

    250g flour = 24 - 3” cookies

    *My baking binder notes indicate several ratios for chopped chocolate:

    120%
    136%

    I had a post-it with a note indicating:

    “*chocolate increase to 1:1.55”

    So my guess is people kept demanding more chocolate



    I always cream my butter cold right out of the refrigerator. Cream about five minutes. I like my finish dough temperature to be around 68°F - 70°F. I usually rest of my dough several hours before baking.


    So these are the ratios I’ll adjust for the invert sugar test. Right now we’re in the middle of a heat wave here and my house is 86°F! So it will be a while before I fire up my oven.
     

    Attached Files:

    Norcalbaker59, Jun 11, 2019
    #6
    J13 likes this.
  7. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Thanks for all that info on sugar! I did know some of it, especially about the blackstrap molasses. Every molasses cookie recipe I’ve got has said, in almost a panicked voice there on the page, “Don’t use blackstrap!” :D I also note that they all insist on unsulfured molasses. That’s a given for me even if the recipe didn’t say it as my husband has a mild sulfur allergy. This is mostly no problem unless I’m buying dried fruit, especially dried apricots.

    I happen to really love molasses. My favorite cranberry sauce recipe is one that tastes all “New England-y” thanks to the addition of molasses and maple syrup. As for your chocolate chip cookies...it’s funny how all CC recipes, unlike some other cookies, seem to have the same bones, like a mix of brown and white sugar. It speaks well of the cookie that the batter has just the right flavor for delivering that chocolate. The big difference in most seems to be that ratio between sugar and flour, making the cookie more cake-y or more crunchy. Which makes your experiment all the more interesting as it’s not about more or less but type of sugar. I’m looking forward to hearing about it...when it gets cool enough in your kitchen to try it.
    Hah! Maybe you should take the advice of Mindy Segal’s recipe there and use chocolate disks instead of chips? I think I’m one of the rare chocolate chip cookie lovers who only dumps in half the bag instead of the whole bag :p I agree that there should be chocolate in every bite, but I want there to be a good amount of cookie, too, to balance out of the coffee-like bitterness of the dark chips I always use. Very rich and dark chips also, IMHO, give you a chocolate flavor that really lasts on the tongue, so less is more.
    Interesting! I cream my butter cold because I’m impatient :oops: Is there a good reason for creaming it cold rather than letting it soften to room temp?
     
    J13, Jun 12, 2019
    #7
    Norcalbaker59 likes this.
  8. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California

    Your cranberry sauce sounds delicious. I’d love to have the recipe. I make cranberry relish the traditional way, cooked in fresh squeezed orange juice, orange zest with a little grated ginger. Everyone at the dinner table takes a big slab of turkey and a little spoonful of cranberry relish. I pile a heap of cranberry relish my plate and take a tiny piece of turkey. I hate to admit it but even when I was a kid and we only had cranberry sauce in a can I still piled it on my plate.


    ********

    I’m glad to hear recipes are specifying no blackstrap molasses. In the past it was the opposite. Which was very puzzling for those with southern roots. But then there were some southern things I could never figure out like how my grandma could drink a tall glass of buttermilk or think horehound candy was candy!


    *********


    You’re right, CC recipes are about the sugar and flour ratio. The brown sugar is going to make the cookie thicker; Granulated sugar will cause it to spread more. But the other key to the texture is the leavening. I only use baking soda. The baking powder changes the texture, to a slightly puffy cake like cookie.


    I found people are very particular about the chocolate in to their cookie. I did a test of a half a dozen types of chocolates. The base dough did not change, only the chocolates. All the tasters remained the same, children, adolescence, adults.


    The kids and adolescents like milk chocolate chips.


    Adults prefer semisweet or bittersweet. A 60% chocolate is about the limit on the chocolate. When I went dark Valrhona 70% everyone hated it.


    I agree with you on the amount of chocolate. I think there should be chocolate in every bite, but at a certain point there can be too much chocolate. But I’ve noticed this trend towards extreme excess in desserts. Those drip cakes with a crap load of candy and cookies piled on top. Cakes loaded up with a bunch of M&Ms and mini cookies inside. Now these milkshakes piled with so much crap you can’t can’t even find the straw. The excess is nauseating.


    ************

    You been doing the right thing creaming the butter cold out of the refrigerator!!! Just make sure you’re creaming the butter long enough. There’s a link below on creaming butter.

    The “room temperature” for creaming butter is the biggest lie in baking. In culinary school and in professional level baking classes they teach the temperature of butter for creaming is 65°F.

    So I don’t even know why cookbook authors and recipes state “room temperature” because they know better and they were taught The temperature of the butter should be 65°F.

    And the reason the reason is creaming butter and sugar is not about mixing two ingredients. Creamy butter and sugar is mechanical leavening. The sugar crystals cuts through the butter, creating air pockets.

    The temperature of the butter is critical for mechanical leavening to work. If your butter is too warm, it won’t hold any air. So it completely defeats the whole purpose of creaming the butter.

    Stella Park linked explains it all. She creams butter at 60°F. I’ve been creaming butter right out of the fridge for going on 20 years because I learned early on that room temperature butter is a big fat lie that made flat as pancake cookies. Then I took some professional level baking classes and explained why those cookies where flat.

    Now that said, I use butter at about 68°F to make shortbread. But that’s the warmest butter I use in a cookie dough. But in shortbread there is no creaming either. And the dough is mixing my hand.

    Off to my brothers house for the next four days to watch my niece. So I get some air conditioning. :D


    https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/12/cookie-science-creaming-butter-sugar.html
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jun 12, 2019
    #8
  9. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    That's the cranberry sauce I grew up with, too. Then I learned how easy (outrageously easy!) and fun it was to make cranberry sauce—and how creative I could get with the flavors, and it's been popping those fresh berries in juice and sugar ever since. My two most successful were an apple-pie-ish one made with the help of King Arthur's concentrated apple cider, chopped apples and apple pie spice, and one with dried tart cherries and ruby port. I freestyle them, so, no recipe. Apple juice for the apple-pie one along with the concentrate and orange or tangerine juice for the cherry port.

    The the Nantucket cranberry sauce recipe can be found here, on Epicurious:
    https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/member/views/NANTUCKET-CRANBERRY-SAUCE-50016821
    I usually substitute bottled tangerine juice for orange juice (if I can get it) as I really like tangerine juice.
    Interesting! I imagine the 70% also didn't give tasters that melty quality that everyone wants in a chocolate chip cookie. I do have that right, right? The darker the chocolate, the less melty it gets on its own?
    :p Blech! You're right. Donuts, too. I see all this cream and cookie dough stuffed in them and candy and frosting piled on top and I just wince. I can't wait for this excess fad in desserts to end and we get back to, well, a plain glazed donut. I wonder if it has anything to do with all the grain bowls and juice drink meals? Everyone is so uber-healthy with meals, they figure dessert has to be super indulgent to balance it out? :rolleyes:
    :confused: Whoah. Okay. You just rocked my world, there. I'm a big fan of culinary science and such, and do plenty of reading on the topic, but I hadn't heard that one. Color me shocked. And glad. When I decide to bake, it's usually "I want to make cookies now..." not "I'm going to make cookies in an hour, take out the butter so it can soften..." :D Glad to know that, in most cases, I don't have to sit there and wonder how to bring the butter to room temp. Thanks for the link!

    And enjoy your niece and the air conditioning. Does this mean you and your niece will be trying out your idea for a better chocolate chip cookie? :cool:
     
    J13, Jun 13, 2019
    #9
  10. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California
    I copied the Nantucket cranberry sauce to my Files to try this holiday. I like the idea of maple syrup. But the riff you do off King Arthur’s recipe rush healthy sounds good delicious!!!

    =====

    The percentage on chocolate indicates The quantity of cocoa mass to sugar. But it does not indicate the amount of cocoa butter. The amount of cocoa butter varies by manufacture. Twi manufacturers can have a 70% chocolate but have different amounts of cocoa butter; variety of chocolate and their own preferences determines how much cocoa butter they would put in their chocolate. People often think the percentage is an indication of quality. But percentage is only quantity of cocoa mass to sugar, not quality.

    ======

    Yes, the “room temperature” butter revelation is always a shocker. The other interesting thing about butter is in manufacturing butter is it’s tempered. And every manufacturer has their own process for tempering butter. How it’s tempered determines how pliable the finished is. Kerrygold butter is extremely pliable when cold. So when I laminate dough that’s my butter of choice I want a pliable butter to roll out between the layers of dough. But if I’m going to make pie dough, I want the chunks of butter to stay intact, so I don’t use Kerrygold because it’s too pliable. So I use Plugra in pie dough.

    ======

    Yeah my niece gets to eat a lot of my cookie experiments. But this time we’re doing water park and other such activities. No baking this time.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jun 14, 2019
    #10
  11. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Well, since cranberry sauce is the thing for at least 8 weeks—all of November and December to my mind—I find it easy enough to make an apple pie batch one week, a ruby port batch the next and Nantucket, too. Between dolloping it on dinner plates, spreading it on sandwiches and even topping pancakes with it, it all gets consumed...with relish ;)
    AH! Another pearl of wisdom. Kerrygold for laminating. I can see from your avatar that you must do plenty of that—and I salute you, as it's a time consuming process. I haven't but dipped my toe into recipes that require laminating, but which butter to use for it...very useful! Thank you.
     
    J13, Jun 15, 2019
    #11
    Norcalbaker59 likes this.
  12. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California
    Lol, I didn’t thinking anyone else could eat cranberry sauce in bulk like me. :p I love the combination of the tart and sweet. For years cooking a turkey on Thanksgiving was just an excuse to make cranberry sauce. Now we usually do a nontraditional Thanksgiving, but I still have to have my cranberry sauce. Thanksgiving is traditionally a beef Tenderloin and I still make my cranberry sauce:p

    Took me a long time to try laminated dough. The first time the dough looked perfect going into the oven, but all the butter leaked out during the bake. And I tell you those were some ugly croissants:confused: Second time they baked up more like a puff pastry, which is my avatar picture. The third time was a charm and I got beautiful layers.
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jun 15, 2019
    #12
  13. runner101

    J13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    79
    Ack on your first time there. I'm getting PTSD flashbacks of my most memorable baking failures now, from batches of caramel that crystalized or, one memorable time, turned into a rock in my pot, to the mini genoise cakes that all sunk in the middle....and yes, a flashback or two of butter separating out, most notably with pie crusts. :confused: Gah.

    Sometimes I honestly cannot understand why baking appeals to me so much. You have to be ready to throw out the whole thing no matter how long it took you to create :mad: and try-try-and-try again. Yet I keep coming back to it, and going after bigger challenges like sourdough bread. It's a very strange addiction. :cool:
     
    J13, Jun 17, 2019
    #13
    Norcalbaker59 likes this.
  14. runner101

    Norcalbaker59 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Northern California

    Lol, it is a strange addiction...
     
    Norcalbaker59, Jun 18, 2019
    #14
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.