Piping Flowers

[MissyMac]

Hello

I have been baking basic cakes for a few years and want to start getting into decorating them (usually just spread with icing).

I normally use American buttercream but not a big fan of the taste, is there anything else that I can use to cover and pipe flowers?

Thanks x

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hello

I have been baking basic cakes for a few years and want to start getting into decorating them (usually just spread with icing).

I normally use American buttercream but not a big fan of the taste, is there anything else that I can use to cover and pipe flowers?

Thanks x

Swiss meringue or Italian meringue buttercream. I dislike American buttercream, never use it. The meringue buttercreams are the only buttercreams pastry chefs use in high end bakeries. You will need a stand mixer for Italian meringue because it involves hot sugar syrup. Swiss meringue can be made with a hand mixer, but its exhausting. Also you definitely get a better result with a stand mixer. Let me know if you want recipes.

 

[MissyMac]

Recipes would be great, is there any of the 2 that are better or is it just personal preference?
Thanks

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Italian meringue buttercream is more complex to make, but it is more stable. It is the best. one to have in your repertoire. Italian meringue buttercream is probably the one most used among high end pastry chefs because it is more stable. Both Swiss meringue and Italian meringue taste good, so tastewise I have no preference. Pastry schools will teach them all and insist you master them all. But If you spend $250 for a one day cake class at say CIA, I guarantee they will teach Italian.

You can reduce the sugar up/down to your taste.

The quality of the butter is important. If you are in the US, I suggest Plugra. LandOLakes will work in a pinch. You cannot go cheap with the butter. The best price for Plugra is Walmart.

I use baker’s percentages for everything. In writing this out, I assumed you have not made a meringue before. So I explained the mise en place as well. Mise en place is very important to successful baking in general, but when working with 240°F sugar syrup, everything needs to be in place and ready to go.

Here’s my Italian. I‘ll write out the Swiss and post it later

=========================================================



Italian Meringue Buttercream

Ratios.

• Egg whites 1.00 (same as 100%)
• Sugar 2.50* (same as 250%)
• Butter 3.00 (same as 300%)
• Vanilla paste 0.10 (same as 10%)
• Cream of tartar 0.01 (same as 1%)
• Salt 0.005 (same as 0.5%)

*NOTES:

• 20% sugar is beaten into egg whites
• Water is 50% of weight of sugar being boiled, but the amount of water does not matter as it boils off. What matters is the temperature of the sugar syrup. You can use any amount of water. I just picked 50% because it was easy to remember.
• Wash and dry mixing bowl thoroughly to ensure it is clean of and oil/fat residue as oil/fat will interfere with the egg whites from developing

Equipment

• Stand Mixer
  • Whisk
  • Paddle
• Saucepan
• Heatproof spatula
• Pastry brush
• Candy or instant read thermometer
• Prep bowls
• Food scale

BATCH

• 200g egg whites, 70°F - 72°F
• 500g cane sugar, set aside 100g for egg whites
• 200ml water
• 3/4 tsp cream of tartar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 20g vanilla paste
• 600g unsalted butter, 83% butterfat, 68°F, 2” cubes

For Chocolate:

• 150g semi-sweet chocolate or milk chocolate, melted cooled to 85°F

Mise en place - French term, “putting in place”

• Attach whisk to mixer; set paddle attachment next to mixer
• Set aside 100g cane sugar; place reminder 400g cane sugar in heavy saucepan
• Add 200ml water to 400g cane sugar in saucepan, set aside
• Place egg whites in mixer bowl
• Place 3/4 tsp cream of tartar in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 1/8 tsp fine sea salt in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 20g vanilla paste in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Cube 600g unsalted butter, place in prep bowl, place next to mixer

Dip pastry brush in water and brush around the sides of saucepan and let water drip down the sides of pan. Repeat several times. This will dissolve any sugar crystals adhering to the sides of the pan. It you do not have a pastry brush, fill a small teaspoon with water, press the tip of the spoon against the inside of the pan, and slowly pour a tiny amount of water all around the inside wall of the pan to rinse it. If any undissolved sugar crystals remain after the sugar syrup is made, it will cause the all the sugar syrup to recrystallize. This will happen no matter what you are making, meringue, caramel, toffee, fudge, etc. The result of recrystallized sugar is a grainy texture. So washing down the sides of the pan is important.



Attach candy thermometer to inside of pan (if using)



Set saucepan on medium high heat. Do not stir sugar mixture.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 45 seconds until just still clear, but bubbly.



Add the cream of tartar to the egg whites.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 1 minute until the egg whites are white and foamy (see photo)



With the mixer running gradually pour in the cane sugar. It is important the sugar is pour in gradually and not added too soon. If the sugar is added too early, it interferes with the protein denaturation. If added too late, it draws out too much water from the foam, causing the meringue to be dry. If the sugar is just dumped in all at once, it will not be properly dispersed in the foam, thus cannot provide structure. So when and how it is added is important.



When the sugar is added, increase the mixer speed to medium high. Continue whipping your egg whites until they form stiff peaks.



Add the salt. Adding the salt in the beginning can interfere with the volume of the egg whites. So always add salt after the meringue is whipped.



Your meringue should reach stiff peaks at the same time that your sugar syrup reaches 240˚F. If your egg whites are whipping too fast, reduce the mixer speed to medium low. You can also adjust the heat on the sugar syrup to high.



When the sugar syrup reaches 240°F, but no more than 250°F, remove it from the heat.



Turn your mixer up to LOW and SLOWLY pour the sugar syrup as close to the side of the bowl as possible. It’s okay even to pour it right on on inside of the bowl until you get the comfortable with it.



You can also transfer the sugar syrup to a heat proof measuring cup with handle and spout if you feel more comfortable handling the hot syrup that way.



Be very careful not to pour the syrup on the whisk as it will cause it to splatter!!



After all the sugar syrup has been added, increase the mixer speed to high.



Continue beating the meringue until the it has cooled to below 80°F.



Before you begin adding the butter, feel the bottom of the bowl. It should feel barely warm to the touch.



Change to the paddle attachment



With mixer on lowest speed, smash a butter cube and add butter one piece at a time, allowing each piece to incorporate into the meringue before adding another piece



The meringue will deflate into a soupy hot mess when you begin to add the butter. This is perfectly normal.



After all the butter has been added, continue to beat on low until buttercream forms. This may take up to 10 minutes, maybe longer. Just let it be, it will come together.



Add the vanilla, or flavoring of your choice.



For chocolate:

Melt 150g chocolate; cool to 85°F or slightly below. Fold in with a spatula.





For flowers, it is best to chill meringue thoroughly, then re- whip it. Portion out the amount you want to use for flowers and chill it. Cold it will be hard because it is butter. Let is sit out for about 10 minutes. The break it up in big chunks using a fork. Then re-whip it.



https://bakingbutterlylove.com/how-to-make-realistic-buttercream-flowers/



To color buttercream, used gel or powdered food coloring.



To whiten buttercream, use Sugarflair brand grape violet to counter yellow color from butter. It has to be that specific brand and color: Sugarflair grape violet. Trust me, we have all tried other brands and other shades of purple. Just does not work. Sugarflair is an Australian brand, so you have to order it online. See video link for instructions.

[/QUOTE]


Egg whites should be white and foamy when when you begin to add sugar

Properly beaten egg whites should be shiny, full, and moist.

Italian meringue buttercream after I added the vanilla bean paste—you can see the flecks of vanilla bean seeds

 

[MissyMac]

Thank you for the recipe, it looked a bit daunting but gave it a go and was actually not that bad. My decorating skills still need a bit of work tho

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thank you for the recipe, it looked a bit daunting but gave it a go and was actually not that bad. My decorating skills still need a bit of work tho

You did very well for your first attempt. You got good shape on the flowers and good color in the meringue.

Italian meringue buttercream is an Intermediate skill level. I put it out there because the sooner you learn to make and master it, the better. It is the standard for any quality cake. Once you do it a few times you’ll get more confident and the process will get easier. Once you do it a few times I’ll show you another technique for adding the butter at once. I don’t want to explain it to you now because it’s more advanced. You really need to know how to control the temperature of all your ingredients first.


I’m not sure if you’re aware of this but when you cover a cake with fondant you need to de-gas the day before you decorated. As a cake sits the gas bubbles from the leavening will continue to expel from the cake. If you cover the cake with fondant before those gas bubbles work their way out from the center of the cake they will get trapped between the cake and fondant. Bulges will form under the fondant.


In case you do not know how to de-gas cake that will be covered in fondant, this video will explain.

The crumb coat under your fondant must be perfectly smooth for the fondant to mold flat and smooth on the cake. This video will show you how to get straight sides & sharp edges in meringue buttercreams. Another reason I like meringue buttercream is you cannot do this with American buttercream.

https://www.cakecentral.com/blog/61797/cold-carving



This video will show you how to get sharp edges on fondant. Global Sugar Arts just closed this past month after 19 yrs. But the fondant smoothers he uses are available elsewhere. Just Google “flexible fondant smoothers.”

 

[Cahoot]

Italian meringue buttercream is more complex to make, but it is more stable. It is the best. one to have in your repertoire. Italian meringue buttercream is probably the one most used among high end pastry chefs because it is more stable. Both Swiss meringue and Italian meringue taste good, so tastewise I have no preference. Pastry schools will teach them all and insist you master them all. But If you spend $250 for a one day cake class at say CIA, I guarantee they will teach Italian.

You can reduce the sugar up/down to your taste.

The quality of the butter is important. If you are in the US, I suggest Plugra. LandOLakes will work in a pinch. You cannot go cheap with the butter. The best price for Plugra is Walmart.

I use baker’s percentages for everything. In writing this out, I assumed you have not made a meringue before. So I explained the mise en place as well. Mise en place is very important to successful baking in general, but when working with 240°F sugar syrup, everything needs to be in place and ready to go.

Here’s my Italian. I‘ll write out the Swiss and post it later

=========================================================



Italian Meringue Buttercream

Ratios.

• Egg whites 1.00 (same as 100%)
• Sugar 2.50* (same as 250%)
• Butter 3.00 (same as 300%)
• Vanilla paste 0.10 (same as 10%)
• Cream of tartar 0.01 (same as 1%)
• Salt 0.005 (same as 0.5%)

*NOTES:

• 20% sugar is beaten into egg whites
• Water is 50% of weight of sugar being boiled, but the amount of water does not matter as it boils off. What matters is the temperature of the sugar syrup. You can use any amount of water. I just picked 50% because it was easy to remember.
• Wash and dry mixing bowl thoroughly to ensure it is clean of and oil/fat residue as oil/fat will interfere with the egg whites from developing

Equipment

• Stand Mixer
  • Whisk
  • Paddle
• Saucepan
• Heatproof spatula
• Pastry brush
• Candy or instant read thermometer
• Prep bowls
• Food scale

BATCH

• 200g egg whites, 70°F - 72°F
• 500g cane sugar, set aside 100g for egg whites
• 200ml water
• 3/4 tsp cream of tartar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 20g vanilla paste
• 600g unsalted butter, 83% butterfat, 68°F, 2” cubes

For Chocolate:

• 150g semi-sweet chocolate or milk chocolate, melted cooled to 85°F

Mise en place - French term, “putting in place”

• Attach whisk to mixer; set paddle attachment next to mixer
• Set aside 100g cane sugar; place reminder 400g cane sugar in heavy saucepan
• Add 200ml water to 400g cane sugar in saucepan, set aside
• Place egg whites in mixer bowl
• Place 3/4 tsp cream of tartar in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 1/8 tsp fine sea salt in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 20g vanilla paste in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Cube 600g unsalted butter, place in prep bowl, place next to mixer

Dip pastry brush in water and brush around the sides of saucepan and let water drip down the sides of pan. Repeat several times. This will dissolve any sugar crystals adhering to the sides of the pan. It you do not have a pastry brush, fill a small teaspoon with water, press the tip of the spoon against the inside of the pan, and slowly pour a tiny amount of water all around the inside wall of the pan to rinse it. If any undissolved sugar crystals remain after the sugar syrup is made, it will cause the all the sugar syrup to recrystallize. This will happen no matter what you are making, meringue, caramel, toffee, fudge, etc. The result of recrystallized sugar is a grainy texture. So washing down the sides of the pan is important.



Attach candy thermometer to inside of pan (if using)



Set saucepan on medium high heat. Do not stir sugar mixture.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 45 seconds until just still clear, but bubbly.



Add the cream of tartar to the egg whites.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 1 minute until the egg whites are white and foamy (see photo)



With the mixer running gradually pour in the cane sugar. It is important the sugar is pour in gradually and not added too soon. If the sugar is added too early, it interferes with the protein denaturation. If added too late, it draws out too much water from the foam, causing the meringue to be dry. If the sugar is just dumped in all at once, it will not be properly dispersed in the foam, thus cannot provide structure. So when and how it is added is important.



When the sugar is added, increase the mixer speed to medium high. Continue whipping your egg whites until they form stiff peaks.



Add the salt. Adding the salt in the beginning can interfere with the volume of the egg whites. So always add salt after the meringue is whipped.



Your meringue should reach stiff peaks at the same time that your sugar syrup reaches 240˚F. If your egg whites are whipping too fast, reduce the mixer speed to medium low. You can also adjust the heat on the sugar syrup to high.



When the sugar syrup reaches 240°F, but no more than 250°F, remove it from the heat.



Turn your mixer up to LOW and SLOWLY pour the sugar syrup as close to the side of the bowl as possible. It’s okay even to pour it right on on inside of the bowl until you get the comfortable with it.



You can also transfer the sugar syrup to a heat proof measuring cup with handle and spout if you feel more comfortable handling the hot syrup that way.



Be very careful not to pour the syrup on the whisk as it will cause it to splatter!!



After all the sugar syrup has been added, increase the mixer speed to high.



Continue beating the meringue until the it has cooled to below 80°F.



Before you begin adding the butter, feel the bottom of the bowl. It should feel barely warm to the touch.



Change to the paddle attachment



With mixer on lowest speed, smash a butter cube and add butter one piece at a time, allowing each piece to incorporate into the meringue before adding another piece



The meringue will deflate into a soupy hot mess when you begin to add the butter. This is perfectly normal.



After all the butter has been added, continue to beat on low until buttercream forms. This may take up to 10 minutes, maybe longer. Just let it be, it will come together.



Add the vanilla, or flavoring of your choice.



For chocolate:

Melt 150g chocolate; cool to 85°F or slightly below. Fold in with a spatula.





For flowers, it is best to chill meringue thoroughly, then re- whip it. Portion out the amount you want to use for flowers and chill it. Cold it will be hard because it is butter. Let is sit out for about 10 minutes. The break it up in big chunks using a fork. Then re-whip it.



https://bakingbutterlylove.com/how-to-make-realistic-buttercream-flowers/



To color buttercream, used gel or powdered food coloring.



To whiten buttercream, use Sugarflair brand grape violet to counter yellow color from butter. It has to be that specific brand and color: Sugarflair grape violet. Trust me, we have all tried other brands and other shades of purple. Just does not work. Sugarflair is an Australian brand, so you have to order it online. See video link for instructions.

Somewhat off-topic, but why do you beat some of the sugar into the egg whites for the meringue, instead of just using all of it for the syrup? I've seen some other Italian meringue recipes do this, but I thought that adding adding sugar in the early stages of beating egg whites inhibits volume, which is why the sugar in French meringues is usually slowly added in around when the meringue has thickened or reached soft peaks.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Somewhat off-topic, but why do you beat some of the sugar into the egg whites for the meringue, instead of just using all of it for the syrup? I've seen some other Italian meringue recipes do this, but I thought that adding adding sugar in the early stages of beating egg whites inhibits volume, which is why the sugar in French meringues is usually slowly added in around when the meringue has thickened or reached soft peaks.

@cahoots, you know how I go on about how there is sooo much bad info on the internet. Another pet peeve of mind is beating egg whites, and in particular egg whites for meringue. Whipping egg whites is all about stability.

The egg white is about 90% water and 10% protein

When you beat egg white you physically cause the denaturation of protein: long chain amino acids unfurl from a somewhat spherical shape. This exposes various amino acids that are either hydrophilic (absorbs water on a molecular level) or hydrophobic (repels water on a molecular level).

If whipped correctly, the hydrophilic amino acids will form what is called ionic bonds, created by electrically charged molecules, that bind to water molecules. These bonds are the best bonds as they create a voluminous, silky, and moist meringue.

Remember, water molecules like to bond to each other. But as you beat more and more air into the egg whites it separates the water molecules from each other. This forces the water molecules out of the network of amino acids (proteins), water, and air bubbles.

If too much air is beaten in, it eventually destabilizes the entire network of molecules, and allows disulfide bonds form. These are bonds between the amino acids that have sulfurs. When the water is squeezed out and these really tight bonds form between the sulfur animo acids form you get dry egg whites that are full of gritty tiny white specks.

So there are two types of bonds that can occur in whipped egg whites:

• iconic bonds (perfectly beaten egg whites)
• disulfide bonds (over beaten egg whites)

The iconic bonds are not stable. To stabilize the iconic bond you must do three things:

1. add an acid

2. add sugar at the correct time and slowly

3. gradually beat egg whites from low speed to high speed


Acid: people tell you to add an acid, but never explain why. An acid like cream of tartar is potassium hydrogen tartrate. It’s the hydrogen that is important. A hydrogen atom contains a single positively proton and a negatively charged electron. Because it has a negatively charged electron, it can keep protein from bonding with other proteins. So disulfide bonds are less likely to occur.


Sugar: Adding the sugar to whipped eggs too soon will interfere with protein denaturalization process (sugar molecules can get in the way as the hydrophilic amino acids bind with water molecules). The sugar and water molecules also bind, adding more stability to the egg whites by keeping the water molecules from being forced out. If the sugar is dumped in or add too fast will not disperse the sugar evenly throughout the egg whites to build a good network of water and sugar molecule bonds.

Gradually beat: the meringue is formed when the amino acids unfurl and bind with water molecules. Then air bubbles push in between the proteins and water. As the water molecules are pushed apart by air. You seen how water can be stretched with tension, you can dribble it down your chin or on the counter. But you can only dribble the water so far. The same thing happens as more air bubbles are beat into the egg whites, the water molecules form a film and spread out. Beating the egg whites gradually and increasing the speed makes for tiny uniform air bubbles and reduces the risk of forcing in so much air that it forces the water molecules out.

You always ask really good questions @Cahoots!!!


Start with pure egg whites. Beat egg whites on low for about 30

frothy but still translucent add cream of tartar. This is about 30 – 40 seconds of beating on #2 on KitchenAid

When they are opaque gradually add sugar. This is about 2 min beating #2 on KitchenAid

after the sugar has been added gradually increase the speed every minute. This is pure eggs white

 

[Cahoot]

@cahoots, you know how I go on about how there is sooo much bad info on the internet. Another pet peeve of mind is beating egg whites, and in particular egg whites for meringue. Whipping egg whites is all about stability.

The egg white is about 90% water and 10% protein

When you beat egg white you physically cause the denaturation of protein: long chain amino acids unfurl from a somewhat spherical shape. This exposes various amino acids that are either hydrophilic (absorbs water on a molecular level) or hydrophobic (repels water on a molecular level).

If whipped correctly, the hydrophilic amino acids will form what is called ionic bonds, created by electrically charged molecules, that bind to water molecules. These bonds are the best bonds as they create a voluminous, silky, and moist meringue.

Remember, water molecules like to bond to each other. But as you beat more and more air into the egg whites it separates the water molecules from each other. This forces the water molecules out of the network of amino acids (proteins), water, and air bubbles.

If too much air is beaten in, it eventually destabilizes the entire network of molecules, and allows disulfide bonds form. These are bonds between the amino acids that have sulfurs. When the water is squeezed out and these really tight bonds form between the sulfur animo acids form you get dry egg whites that are full of gritty tiny white specks.

So there are two types of bonds that can occur in whipped egg whites:

• iconic bonds (perfectly beaten egg whites)
• disulfide bonds (over beaten egg whites)

The iconic bonds are not stable. To stabilize the iconic bond you must do three things:

1. add an acid

2. add sugar at the correct time and slowly

3. gradually beat egg whites from low speed to high speed


Acid: people tell you to add an acid, but never explain why. An acid like cream of tartar is potassium hydrogen tartrate. It’s the hydrogen that is important. A hydrogen atom contains a single positively proton and a negatively charged electron. Because it has a negatively charged electron, it can keep protein from bonding with other proteins. So disulfide bonds are less likely to occur.


Sugar: Adding the sugar to whipped eggs too soon will interfere with protein denaturalization process (sugar molecules can get in the way as the hydrophilic amino acids bind with water molecules). The sugar and water molecules also bind, adding more stability to the egg whites by keeping the water molecules from being forced out. If the sugar is dumped in or add too fast will not disperse the sugar evenly throughout the egg whites to build a good network of water and sugar molecule bonds.

Gradually beat: the meringue is formed when the amino acids unfurl and bind with water molecules. Then air bubbles push in between the proteins and water. As the water molecules are pushed apart by air. You seen how water can be stretched with tension, you can dribble it down your chin or on the counter. But you can only dribble the water so far. The same thing happens as more air bubbles are beat into the egg whites, the water molecules form a film and spread out. Beating the egg whites gradually and increasing the speed makes for tiny uniform air bubbles and reduces the risk of forcing in so much air that it forces the water molecules out.

You always ask really good questions @Cahoots!!!


Start with pure egg whites. Beat egg whites on low for about 30
View attachment 3089

frothy but still translucent add cream of tartar. This is about 30 – 40 seconds of beating on #2 on KitchenAid
View attachment 3091

When they are opaque gradually add sugar. This is about 2 min beating #2 on KitchenAid
View attachment 3094

after the sugar has been added gradually increase the speed every minute. This is pure eggs white
View attachment 3090


View attachment 3095

Some damn good information here! This is even more in-depth on making meringue than the Suas textbook or Figoni's How Baking Works - they don't talk about the iconic/sulfide bonds, or mention why sugar (bonding with water molecules = keeps them from being forced out or acid (electron in hydrogen atom keeps proteins from bonding with other proteins, thereby preventing disulfide bond formation) actually increase stability.

You should consider writing a book or even keeping a blog, sort of a cookbook/baking science hybrid. I'd pre-order it in an instant; I've probably learned as much practical baking science information from you as any other source I've ever read outside of Figoni's text, but I like how much more detail you go into. E.g. in this instance, there are many sources on the internet and in cooking texts that can tell you sugar and acid stabilize meringues (I already knew that, which in hindsight makes my question of why do you add sugar to the meringue separate from the syrup kind of dumb), but it's very nice to know the chemistry of exactly why and how they stabilize the meringue.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Some damn good information here! This is even more in-depth on making meringue than the Suas textbook or Figoni's How Baking Works - they don't talk about the iconic/sulfide bonds, or mention why sugar (bonding with water molecules = keeps them from being forced out or acid (electron in hydrogen atom keeps proteins from bonding with other proteins, thereby preventing disulfide bond formation) actually increase stability.

You should consider writing a book or even keeping a blog, sort of a cookbook/baking science hybrid. I'd pre-order it in an instant; I've probably learned as much practical baking science information from you as any other source I've ever read outside of Figoni's text, but I like how much more detail you go into. E.g. in this instance, there are many sources on the internet and in cooking texts that can tell you sugar and acid stabilize meringues (I already knew that, which in hindsight makes my question of why do you add sugar to the meringue separate from the syrup kind of dumb), but it's very nice to know the chemistry of exactly why and how they stabilize the meringue.

That’s my plan, to write a cookbook for the home baker that explains these more nuanced details. It may not be what every baker wants, but if baker really wants to master their craft they’re going to find this information. And most of those that search for this information end up becoming professional bakers. And they find it in the classroom.

But I think there’s a need for it for home bakers.

99% of what’s on the Internet is simply one “baker” after another doing copy and paste of each other. So incorrect information is just being regurgitated. The facts are taught in the classroom, but 99% of the “bakers” on the internet never took a culinary class.

 

[Cahoot]

Italian meringue buttercream is more complex to make, but it is more stable. It is the best. one to have in your repertoire. Italian meringue buttercream is probably the one most used among high end pastry chefs because it is more stable. Both Swiss meringue and Italian meringue taste good, so tastewise I have no preference. Pastry schools will teach them all and insist you master them all. But If you spend $250 for a one day cake class at say CIA, I guarantee they will teach Italian.

You can reduce the sugar up/down to your taste.

The quality of the butter is important. If you are in the US, I suggest Plugra. LandOLakes will work in a pinch. You cannot go cheap with the butter. The best price for Plugra is Walmart.

I use baker’s percentages for everything. In writing this out, I assumed you have not made a meringue before. So I explained the mise en place as well. Mise en place is very important to successful baking in general, but when working with 240°F sugar syrup, everything needs to be in place and ready to go.

Here’s my Italian. I‘ll write out the Swiss and post it later

=========================================================



Italian Meringue Buttercream

Ratios.

• Egg whites 1.00 (same as 100%)
• Sugar 2.50* (same as 250%)
• Butter 3.00 (same as 300%)
• Vanilla paste 0.10 (same as 10%)
• Cream of tartar 0.01 (same as 1%)
• Salt 0.005 (same as 0.5%)

*NOTES:

• 20% sugar is beaten into egg whites
• Water is 50% of weight of sugar being boiled, but the amount of water does not matter as it boils off. What matters is the temperature of the sugar syrup. You can use any amount of water. I just picked 50% because it was easy to remember.
• Wash and dry mixing bowl thoroughly to ensure it is clean of and oil/fat residue as oil/fat will interfere with the egg whites from developing

Equipment

• Stand Mixer
  • Whisk
  • Paddle
• Saucepan
• Heatproof spatula
• Pastry brush
• Candy or instant read thermometer
• Prep bowls
• Food scale

BATCH

• 200g egg whites, 70°F - 72°F
• 500g cane sugar, set aside 100g for egg whites
• 200ml water
• 3/4 tsp cream of tartar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 20g vanilla paste
• 600g unsalted butter, 83% butterfat, 68°F, 2” cubes

For Chocolate:

• 150g semi-sweet chocolate or milk chocolate, melted cooled to 85°F

Mise en place - French term, “putting in place”

• Attach whisk to mixer; set paddle attachment next to mixer
• Set aside 100g cane sugar; place reminder 400g cane sugar in heavy saucepan
• Add 200ml water to 400g cane sugar in saucepan, set aside
• Place egg whites in mixer bowl
• Place 3/4 tsp cream of tartar in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 1/8 tsp fine sea salt in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 20g vanilla paste in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Cube 600g unsalted butter, place in prep bowl, place next to mixer

Dip pastry brush in water and brush around the sides of saucepan and let water drip down the sides of pan. Repeat several times. This will dissolve any sugar crystals adhering to the sides of the pan. It you do not have a pastry brush, fill a small teaspoon with water, press the tip of the spoon against the inside of the pan, and slowly pour a tiny amount of water all around the inside wall of the pan to rinse it. If any undissolved sugar crystals remain after the sugar syrup is made, it will cause the all the sugar syrup to recrystallize. This will happen no matter what you are making, meringue, caramel, toffee, fudge, etc. The result of recrystallized sugar is a grainy texture. So washing down the sides of the pan is important.



Attach candy thermometer to inside of pan (if using)



Set saucepan on medium high heat. Do not stir sugar mixture.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 45 seconds until just still clear, but bubbly.



Add the cream of tartar to the egg whites.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 1 minute until the egg whites are white and foamy (see photo)



With the mixer running gradually pour in the cane sugar. It is important the sugar is pour in gradually and not added too soon. If the sugar is added too early, it interferes with the protein denaturation. If added too late, it draws out too much water from the foam, causing the meringue to be dry. If the sugar is just dumped in all at once, it will not be properly dispersed in the foam, thus cannot provide structure. So when and how it is added is important.



When the sugar is added, increase the mixer speed to medium high. Continue whipping your egg whites until they form stiff peaks.



Add the salt. Adding the salt in the beginning can interfere with the volume of the egg whites. So always add salt after the meringue is whipped.



Your meringue should reach stiff peaks at the same time that your sugar syrup reaches 240˚F. If your egg whites are whipping too fast, reduce the mixer speed to medium low. You can also adjust the heat on the sugar syrup to high.



When the sugar syrup reaches 240°F, but no more than 250°F, remove it from the heat.



Turn your mixer up to LOW and SLOWLY pour the sugar syrup as close to the side of the bowl as possible. It’s okay even to pour it right on on inside of the bowl until you get the comfortable with it.



You can also transfer the sugar syrup to a heat proof measuring cup with handle and spout if you feel more comfortable handling the hot syrup that way.



Be very careful not to pour the syrup on the whisk as it will cause it to splatter!!



After all the sugar syrup has been added, increase the mixer speed to high.



Continue beating the meringue until the it has cooled to below 80°F.



Before you begin adding the butter, feel the bottom of the bowl. It should feel barely warm to the touch.



Change to the paddle attachment



With mixer on lowest speed, smash a butter cube and add butter one piece at a time, allowing each piece to incorporate into the meringue before adding another piece



The meringue will deflate into a soupy hot mess when you begin to add the butter. This is perfectly normal.



After all the butter has been added, continue to beat on low until buttercream forms. This may take up to 10 minutes, maybe longer. Just let it be, it will come together.



Add the vanilla, or flavoring of your choice.



For chocolate:

Melt 150g chocolate; cool to 85°F or slightly below. Fold in with a spatula.





For flowers, it is best to chill meringue thoroughly, then re- whip it. Portion out the amount you want to use for flowers and chill it. Cold it will be hard because it is butter. Let is sit out for about 10 minutes. The break it up in big chunks using a fork. Then re-whip it.



https://bakingbutterlylove.com/how-to-make-realistic-buttercream-flowers/



To color buttercream, used gel or powdered food coloring.



To whiten buttercream, use Sugarflair brand grape violet to counter yellow color from butter. It has to be that specific brand and color: Sugarflair grape violet. Trust me, we have all tried other brands and other shades of purple. Just does not work. Sugarflair is an Australian brand, so you have to order it online. See video link for instructions.

Egg whites should be white and foamy when when you begin to add sugar
View attachment 3048


Properly beaten egg whites should be shiny, full, and moist.
View attachment 3049


Italian meringue buttercream after I added the vanilla bean paste—you can see the flecks of vanilla bean seeds
View attachment 3050
[/QUOTE]
So I've been reading up on buttercream recipes now, and there are just a couple questions that popped into my head.

1) When you finish whipping and meringue and start adding the butter, does it make a bit difference whether you switch to the paddle attachment or stay with the whisk? I've seen some people recommend the paddle to minimize incorporating air into the buttercream, which keeps it smoother. Others switch to the paddle at the very end to knock out air bubbles. However I've seen a lot of other recipes also just stick with using the whisk the entire time too.

2) Probably related to the first question, but I noticed when you add the butter you reduce the speed to the lowest setting, and continue mixing on low for the rest of the recipe. I've seen most other recipes call for mixing on medium or high speed, for when the butter is being added and to finish mixing the buttercream. I'm assuming the lower speed is like point (1), to minimize incorporating air? However are there concerns of the butter not emulsifying properly into the mixture if the speed is too low?

3) Outside of the meringue itself, does the mixing method matter whether you're making a Swiss or Italian buttercream? I.e. once you start adding the butter, would the steps in the recipe be identical?

I think I honestly got a bit dizzy after cross-referencing so many recipes and staring at the spreadsheet I made to compare their ratios lmao.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Cahoot

You definitely want to use a paddle when adding the butter. The whisk is going beat in a ton of air bubbles. Those air bubbles will be impossible to smooth off the side of a cake and will make your piping look like crap. Throwing on the paddle after the fact and beating more to knock out bubbles will not work well. Plus it over beats and over heats the buttercream. Use the correct technique to begin with, and just avoid this mess altogether.

Dropping the speed to the lowest setting is very important. Buttercream is an emulsion and it will take some time to create it. It will look like a hot curdled mess before it emulsifies. But don’t freak out, just let the mixer run and keep the faith.

Yes, once you start adding the butter the mixing is the same for both SMBC and IMBC.

Just jump in and give it a try. It really not that difficult. I prefer chocolate or good vanilla bean paste in my buttercream. I don’t think vanilla extract does much for flavoring buttercream.

I took this photo from the internet; not going to credit the website cuz I don’t want to trash the baker. But this buttercream is going to make a crappy looking cake. It will pipe into a jagged mess. Some air bubbles are going to happen. But you want to avoid a buttercream that looks like this. This just screams of poor training.

This is my buttercream. After I beat in the butter, it will look a bit rough. I use an offset spatula to smooth it out. As you can see there are few air bubbles. This what you get when you beat it at low speed, use the right temperature of butter, high butterfat butter, and a paddle attachment.

And when your buttercream is free of air bubbles, it pipes smooth.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59 I have a question about cooling buttercreams to the right consistency for piping, especially for looser frostings such as cream cheese frostings or crème mousseline (pastry cream + butter).

For example with creme mousseline (e.g. for making Paris-Brests), you need the pastry cream and butter around 70F otherwise it'll be grainy, so the finished temperature will be 70-72F. However at this temperature it's way too lose to holds its shape well when piped, so it needs to be cooled. But if I toss the buttercream in the fridge until it's firm (around 55-60F), it becomes grainy when I whisk or re-mix it to smooth it out. If I understand correctly this is true for all buttercreams in general; I've seen people say to let frozen/refrigerated buttercreams warm to 70F before you re-mix them.

So what's the correct procedure for when you need to cool a buttercream before piping it? Should you just put it into the pastry bag after it's cooled sufficiently, without whisking or mixing it? I've also tried putting it into the pastry bag while it's still warm and then refrigerating it in the pastry bag. However the problem is that it doesn't necessarily pipe well when cooled, because it stiffens up inside the bag.

Essentially from what I understand, the problem is that you need to smooth out a buttercream if you chill it a bit, but mixing a chilled buttercream causes it to go grainy.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59 I have a question about cooling buttercreams to the right consistency for piping, especially for looser frostings such as cream cheese frostings or crème mousseline (pastry cream + butter).

For example with creme mousseline (e.g. for making Paris-Brests), you need the pastry cream and butter around 70F otherwise it'll be grainy, so the finished temperature will be 70-72F. However at this temperature it's way too lose to holds its shape well when piped, so it needs to be cooled. But if I toss the buttercream in the fridge until it's firm (around 55-60F), it becomes grainy when I whisk or re-mix it to smooth it out. If I understand correctly this is true for all buttercreams in general; I've seen people say to let frozen/refrigerated buttercreams warm to 70F before you re-mix them.

So what's the correct procedure for when you need to cool a buttercream before piping it? Should you just put it into the pastry bag after it's cooled sufficiently, without whisking or mixing it? I've also tried putting it into the pastry bag while it's still warm and then refrigerating it in the pastry bag. However the problem is that it doesn't necessarily pipe well when cooled, because it stiffens up inside the bag.

Essentially from what I understand, the problem is that you need to smooth out a buttercream if you chill it a bit, but mixing a chilled buttercream causes it to go grainy.

Never you have a buttercream with a butter base, chilling it too much will make it hard. I just leave it in the mixer bowl: because it’s metal it transfers cold well. Cover it with plastic, then chill about 15 minutes. gently stir it with a spatula to check the consistency. if it’s still a little too warm cover it and put it back in the refrigerator for another five minutes.

I don’t like to leave buttercream in the fridge in a pastry bag because the metal tip will get clogged with cold buttercream and you don’t get clean piped definition if bits of cold buttercream stick to the edges inside.

I’ve never had anything turn grainy on me from re-whipping. You can’t re- whip anything until you bring it up to temperature though. if you try to re-whip while it’s cold you’re going to have a problem.

Ditto if you use butter that is too cold when making your buttercream - the buttercream will have a bunch of cold bits of butter flakes.

If you can get high butterfat butter (83%) for buttercream, that is the best

 

[Emmie]

Italian meringue buttercream is more complex to make, but it is more stable. It is the best. one to have in your repertoire. Italian meringue buttercream is probably the one most used among high end pastry chefs because it is more stable. Both Swiss meringue and Italian meringue taste good, so tastewise I have no preference. Pastry schools will teach them all and insist you master them all. But If you spend $250 for a one day cake class at say CIA, I guarantee they will teach Italian.

You can reduce the sugar up/down to your taste.

The quality of the butter is important. If you are in the US, I suggest Plugra. LandOLakes will work in a pinch. You cannot go cheap with the butter. The best price for Plugra is Walmart.

I use baker’s percentages for everything. In writing this out, I assumed you have not made a meringue before. So I explained the mise en place as well. Mise en place is very important to successful baking in general, but when working with 240°F sugar syrup, everything needs to be in place and ready to go.

Here’s my Italian. I‘ll write out the Swiss and post it later

=========================================================



Italian Meringue Buttercream

Ratios.

• Egg whites 1.00 (same as 100%)
• Sugar 2.50* (same as 250%)
• Butter 3.00 (same as 300%)
• Vanilla paste 0.10 (same as 10%)
• Cream of tartar 0.01 (same as 1%)
• Salt 0.005 (same as 0.5%)

*NOTES:

• 20% sugar is beaten into egg whites
• Water is 50% of weight of sugar being boiled, but the amount of water does not matter as it boils off. What matters is the temperature of the sugar syrup. You can use any amount of water. I just picked 50% because it was easy to remember.
• Wash and dry mixing bowl thoroughly to ensure it is clean of and oil/fat residue as oil/fat will interfere with the egg whites from developing

Equipment

• Stand Mixer
  • Whisk
  • Paddle
• Saucepan
• Heatproof spatula
• Pastry brush
• Candy or instant read thermometer
• Prep bowls
• Food scale

BATCH

• 200g egg whites, 70°F - 72°F
• 500g cane sugar, set aside 100g for egg whites
• 200ml water
• 3/4 tsp cream of tartar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 20g vanilla paste
• 600g unsalted butter, 83% butterfat, 68°F, 2” cubes

For Chocolate:

• 150g semi-sweet chocolate or milk chocolate, melted cooled to 85°F

Mise en place - French term, “putting in place”

• Attach whisk to mixer; set paddle attachment next to mixer
• Set aside 100g cane sugar; place reminder 400g cane sugar in heavy saucepan
• Add 200ml water to 400g cane sugar in saucepan, set aside
• Place egg whites in mixer bowl
• Place 3/4 tsp cream of tartar in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 1/8 tsp fine sea salt in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Place 20g vanilla paste in prep bowl, place next to mixer
• Cube 600g unsalted butter, place in prep bowl, place next to mixer

Dip pastry brush in water and brush around the sides of saucepan and let water drip down the sides of pan. Repeat several times. This will dissolve any sugar crystals adhering to the sides of the pan. It you do not have a pastry brush, fill a small teaspoon with water, press the tip of the spoon against the inside of the pan, and slowly pour a tiny amount of water all around the inside wall of the pan to rinse it. If any undissolved sugar crystals remain after the sugar syrup is made, it will cause the all the sugar syrup to recrystallize. This will happen no matter what you are making, meringue, caramel, toffee, fudge, etc. The result of recrystallized sugar is a grainy texture. So washing down the sides of the pan is important.



Attach candy thermometer to inside of pan (if using)



Set saucepan on medium high heat. Do not stir sugar mixture.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 45 seconds until just still clear, but bubbly.



Add the cream of tartar to the egg whites.



On medium low beat the egg whites for about 1 minute until the egg whites are white and foamy (see photo)



With the mixer running gradually pour in the cane sugar. It is important the sugar is pour in gradually and not added too soon. If the sugar is added too early, it interferes with the protein denaturation. If added too late, it draws out too much water from the foam, causing the meringue to be dry. If the sugar is just dumped in all at once, it will not be properly dispersed in the foam, thus cannot provide structure. So when and how it is added is important.



When the sugar is added, increase the mixer speed to medium high. Continue whipping your egg whites until they form stiff peaks.



Add the salt. Adding the salt in the beginning can interfere with the volume of the egg whites. So always add salt after the meringue is whipped.



Your meringue should reach stiff peaks at the same time that your sugar syrup reaches 240˚F. If your egg whites are whipping too fast, reduce the mixer speed to medium low. You can also adjust the heat on the sugar syrup to high.



When the sugar syrup reaches 240°F, but no more than 250°F, remove it from the heat.



Turn your mixer up to LOW and SLOWLY pour the sugar syrup as close to the side of the bowl as possible. It’s okay even to pour it right on on inside of the bowl until you get the comfortable with it.



You can also transfer the sugar syrup to a heat proof measuring cup with handle and spout if you feel more comfortable handling the hot syrup that way.



Be very careful not to pour the syrup on the whisk as it will cause it to splatter!!



After all the sugar syrup has been added, increase the mixer speed to high.



Continue beating the meringue until the it has cooled to below 80°F.



Before you begin adding the butter, feel the bottom of the bowl. It should feel barely warm to the touch.



Change to the paddle attachment



With mixer on lowest speed, smash a butter cube and add butter one piece at a time, allowing each piece to incorporate into the meringue before adding another piece



The meringue will deflate into a soupy hot mess when you begin to add the butter. This is perfectly normal.



After all the butter has been added, continue to beat on low until buttercream forms. This may take up to 10 minutes, maybe longer. Just let it be, it will come together.



Add the vanilla, or flavoring of your choice.



For chocolate:

Melt 150g chocolate; cool to 85°F or slightly below. Fold in with a spatula.





For flowers, it is best to chill meringue thoroughly, then re- whip it. Portion out the amount you want to use for flowers and chill it. Cold it will be hard because it is butter. Let is sit out for about 10 minutes. The break it up in big chunks using a fork. Then re-whip it.



https://bakingbutterlylove.com/how-to-make-realistic-buttercream-flowers/



To color buttercream, used gel or powdered food coloring.



To whiten buttercream, use Sugarflair brand grape violet to counter yellow color from butter. It has to be that specific brand and color: Sugarflair grape violet. Trust me, we have all tried other brands and other shades of purple. Just does not work. Sugarflair is an Australian brand, so you have to order it online. See video link for instructions.

This is great Norcal. I normally use American buttercream but it's not great and too sweet. I tried Italian buttercream once and it was such a disaster. Plus it was on a day that I baked about 4 things and they were all so terrible that I really lost heart. The process seemed to go okay but as soon as I poured my syrup into the egg white, some of it solidified on the side of the bowl, plus the whisk spattered some more of it around the sides of the bowl where it solidified. So I don't know whether there was a problem with the syrup or whether my bowl was too cold or whether my mixer is just rubbish. I think the latter is definitely true. When I added the butter, it just didn't incorporate - I added it bit by bit but it just got pushed to the bottom of the bowl and compacted. In the end I think I over beat the eggs because incorporating the butter was taking so long. Don't know if my butter was the wrong temperature or, again, my mixer isn't very good. I just ended up binning it.

 

[Cahoot]

Never you have a buttercream with a butter base, chilling it too much will make it hard. I just leave it in the mixer bowl: because it’s metal it transfers cold well. Cover it with plastic, then chill about 15 minutes. gently stir it with a spatula to check the consistency. if it’s still a little too warm cover it and put it back in the refrigerator for another five minutes.

I don’t like to leave buttercream in the fridge in a pastry bag because the metal tip will get clogged with cold buttercream and you don’t get clean piped definition if bits of cold buttercream stick to the edges inside.

I’ve never had anything turn grainy on me from re-whipping. You can’t re- whip anything until you bring it up to temperature though. if you try to re-whip while it’s cold you’re going to have a problem.

Ditto if you use butter that is too cold when making your buttercream - the buttercream will have a bunch of cold bits of butter flakes.

If you can get high butterfat butter (83%) for buttercream, that is the best

Yeah my problem was that re-whipping cold buttercream caused it to go grainy, but if I let it come to temperature before re-whipping, then well I was back at square one with the problem of it being too soft.

Thinking about it though, I might've been trying to get it colder than necessary before using; it may not have actually been necessary to get it so cold for it to hold well for piping. Next time I make a creme mousseline I'll try just refrigerating it slightly before placing it in the pastry bag and using.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

This is great Norcal. I normally use American buttercream but it's not great and too sweet. I tried Italian buttercream once and it was such a disaster. Plus it was on a day that I baked about 4 things and they were all so terrible that I really lost heart. The process seemed to go okay but as soon as I poured my syrup into the egg white, some of it solidified on the side of the bowl, plus the whisk spattered some more of it around the sides of the bowl where it solidified. So I don't know whether there was a problem with the syrup or whether my bowl was too cold or whether my mixer is just rubbish. I think the latter is definitely true. When I added the butter, it just didn't incorporate - I added it bit by bit but it just got pushed to the bottom of the bowl and compacted. In the end I think I over beat the eggs because incorporating the butter was taking so long. Don't know if my butter was the wrong temperature or, again, my mixer isn't very good. I just ended up binning it.

@Emmie, Italian meringue takes a bit of coordination. When I first started making it, I tended to pour the syrup against the side of the mixer bowl. The trick is to get the stream close to the bowl, but not on it.

You can transfer the syrup into a heat proof measure cup. I used to do that when I first started because it was more comfortable. I would increase the amount of sugar syrup by 5% to make up for what was left in the pot and measuring cup.

The temperature of the butte is important. It needs to be warm enough to emulsify, but not so much that it breaks. I wear food gloves for the most part when I bake. So I just smash each cube between fingers to flatten. But you can use a fork and flatten the cubes on a small piece of parchment paper.

I am not a fan of American icing at all. When I married back when dinosaurs were roaming the earth, I explicitly told the baker she was not to use any type of American icing on my cake. That the only icing she was to use on my cake was real buttercream. She looked at me with an offended look and said something to the effect that she doesn’t even makes cakes with anything but real buttercream.

No one I know will eat it. I guess its the area where I live—it’s a snobby foodie place, so that stuff won’t sell here. Fondant is even fallen out of favor here now. People liked it at first because you could make all these beautifully decorated cakes. But then guests refused to eat it because it taste like crap. Plate after plate of fondant was scraped into the trash. Brides started reported to their friends how much they hated it. Now couples are ordering real buttercream cakes here again. It has come full circle.


Most of the pyrex glass measuring cups are heat proof. I own them in a variety of sizes. Transfer into one that is large enough to hold the hot sugar syrup, but not so large that it creates a lot of exposed surface area and allows the heat escape too fast.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Yeah my problem was that re-whipping cold buttercream caused it to go grainy, but if I let it come to temperature before re-whipping, then well I was back at square one with the problem of it being too soft.

Thinking about it though, I might've been trying to get it colder than necessary before using; it may not have actually been necessary to get it so cold for it to hold well for piping. Next time I make a creme mousseline I'll try just refrigerating it slightly before placing it in the pastry bag and using.

Yes, just chill about 15 - 20 minutes or so. And give it a gentle stir. Also stirring it will bring the center of batch out, so if it is still warmer in the center, another 5 minutes will give in time to cool.

I know some bakers who put the bowl in the freezer. I don’t like to use the freezer unless I am coating a cake and need to set it fast. The freezer sets the butter up too fast. Refrigerating and checking at timed intervals I think works best. Takes longer, but you get a better result.