purpose of a second proof? Yeast vs flour ratio? Proof speed? No starter sourdough

[daddytroopa]

Hello everyone, I'm daddytroopa ... new here, bread making is my new COVID19 hobby

Just wondering what is the purpose of a second proof? Can it be skipped? I feel a lot of steps in baking and any recipe in general is simply tradition and can be skipped.

The challah bread pictured below uses 2 tsp of inst yeast to 2C AP flour (+milk, olive oil, salt). The bread rolls below uses 1/4 tsp inst yeast to 2C AP flour (+water, olive oil, salt), I see no difference when proofing except the challah proofs a lot faster ... is that the only difference in yeast ratio? Proofing speed?

So sourdough is a pain b/c of the starter. I mean I work full time, support my family, kids have activities and sports etc... I'm busy. So I accidentally left my challah bread proofing for 36 hours. I was going to throw it away, but I re-proofed it for another 3 hours after kneading the dough again and I figure I may as well try it. After baking it, the flavour came out a bit sour, like sourdough without starter. Internet / YT search for "no starter sourdough" yields virtually no results. I'm wondering if this is possible... thoughts on this?

 

[invisibleflash]

Wow...they look nice!

I think the 2nd proof is to reduce air holes.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hello everyone, I'm daddytroopa ... new here, bread making is my new COVID19 hobby

Just wondering what is the purpose of a second proof? Can it be skipped? I feel a lot of steps in baking and any recipe in general is simply tradition and can be skipped.

The challah bread pictured below uses 2 tsp of inst yeast to 2C AP flour (+milk, olive oil, salt). The bread rolls below uses 1/4 tsp inst yeast to 2C AP flour (+water, olive oil, salt), I see no difference when proofing except the challah proofs a lot faster ... is that the only difference in yeast ratio? Proofing speed?

So sourdough is a pain b/c of the starter. I mean I work full time, support my family, kids have activities and sports etc... I'm busy. So I accidentally left my challah bread proofing for 36 hours. I was going to throw it away, but I re-proofed it for another 3 hours after kneading the dough again and I figure I may as well try it. After baking it, the flavour came out a bit sour, like sourdough without starter. Internet / YT search for "no starter sourdough" yields virtually no results. I'm wondering if this is possible... thoughts on this?

No the baking processes are not just tradition. The first rise allows the gluten to relax so the dough can more easily be handled for shaping. But is is also part of the fermentation process. Fermentation is important for several reasons, but some important reason is dough strength and quality; to fully hydrate and allow the acidification of the dough to happen. The pH level in the dough is important as it determines the how fast the bread stales (shelf life), bread aroma, and browning. In white breads, the ideal pH level is 5.1 - 5.4 So the preferment should be around 4.5 - 5.1.

You bake in volume, not metric weight, so you cannot determine any of ratios of ingredients. The ratio of each ingredient to the flour is based on weight. This is known as baker’s percentages. The weight of the flour is always 100%. All other ingredients are weighed against the weight of the flour.

When you bake using cups and measuring spoons it is impossible to determine the ratios because it is anyone’s guess as to the weight of the ingredients. The flour could weigh anywhere from 120 g - 150g per cup depending on the cup and how it was filled. And in using cups, you are not measuring against the flour, just independently scooping our ingredients. And eggs come in a variety of sizes, so if you make a large batch, you should crack and weigh into a bowl.

See example of actual challah formula in baker’s percentage below.

A dough without a starter that is left to ferment for 36 hours ferments and develops sourdough like flavor. Better bakeries actually use an overnight pre-ferment to add flavor to the bread. The formula below is an actual bakery formula for challah.

Overnight pre-ferment: mix, let stand at room temperature 1 hour, then refrigerate overnight	DDT 70°F (21°C)	baker’s percentages
bread flour		100
water		65
yeast		0.60
salt		2.00
		167.6
Final Dough 140 g (approx 5 oz) strands; 6 strand braids; 1st fermentation up to 1 hr; final proof 1 hr 15 min 80°F (27°C) 65% rh; egg wash; 380°F (193°C) convection	DDT 73°F (23°C)	baker’s percentages
bread flour		100.00
water		42.14
eggs		22.29
osmotolerant yeast		0.96
salt		2.00
sugar		17.86
butter		22.43
milk powder		3.57
pre-fermented dough		71.83

If you want to try this formula, use 138g for the pre-ferement and 320g flours for the final dough. A regular food scale will not register the tiny amounts for the yeast in pre-ferment. It is about 1/8 teaspoon in the pre-ferment and 1 teaspoon in the final dough.

A pre-ferment should be pulled out of the fridge about two hours before incorporating into the final dough.