Swiss meringue unable to cool down

[Cahoot]

I recently made a Swiss buttercream, and ran into a problem where the meringue wasn't cooling down after being heated up to the temperature I wanted before I added the butter. This was the first time I've tried making Swiss meringue after unsuccessfully attempting it with a hand mixer before. I heated the egg white-sugar mixture in the same stand mixer bowl to 165°F (took about 9 minute), then whipped it on speed 8 on my KitchenAid. My goal was to have it reach 80°F before adding my butter, which was at 68°F.

After 15 minutes of whipping, it had cooled to 94°F, but after another 5 minutes, the temperature had actually started to increase again. In fact, no matter how long I whipped the meringue, it wouldn't get below 94°F and also wouldn't get to stiff peaks; it stayed very runny. I even tried putting the bowl in my garage (with outside temperature more or less around freezing), but even after it cooled to maybe 85°F, the temperature started going up again after I whipped it again.

In the end, I was only able to get it to reach my goal temperature by rubbing the bottom of the bowl by an ice pack (alternating with ice cubes when the ice pack would get too warm) while whipping over the course of maybe 15 minutes. And only after it reached about 85°F did the meringue approach firm (but not yet stiff) peaks. But obviously this step shouldn't be necessary, so I'm wondering who to solve it for next time.

A few notes are:

• My kitchen temperature was at a fairly normal 22°C roughly, so I don't imagine that had any large effect.
• I have a bowl-lift stand mixer, so it have the "foot" in a tilt-head stand mixer bowl that retains heat.

There was also another issue I'm wondering if anyone can give me pointers on. The buttercream ended up tasting super butter-y, likely due to being very dense - I measured it at roughly 210g/cup, whereas I've seen Stella Parks cite 170g/cup as the desired density for Swiss buttercream. My ratios were:
150 g egg whites (100%)
300 g sugar (200%)
413 g butter (275%)

When I added the butter, I switched from the whisk to the paddle attachment and beat it in on speed 2. From what I've seen this isn't a high ratio of butter compared to other meringue buttercream recipes. Should I decrease the amount of butter, or beat it in at a higher speed?

For reference, the final temperature of the buttercream was 69°F. I've seen people say that the final working temperature of meringue buttercream should be 72-73°F, so maybe my buttercream being below this contributed to it being more dense and hence too buttery. However, it also seemed very creamy and soft at this temperature, so I'm not sure if it really ought to be at a higher temperature.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

If your egg whites did not whip, the likely cause was your bowl and/or whisk was contaminated with oil residue or there was a speck of egg yolk in your egg whites.

The night before wash you’re mixing bowl and whisk attachment with hot soapy water. Rinse thoroughly, then fill the bowl with water and a few tablespoons of vinegar. Swish the whisk in the vinegar water. Rinse everything thoroughly. dry thoroughly.

The vinegar rinse will ensure the bowl and whisk are free of any oil residue.

The photo of your buttercream shows an very under whipped meringue. So the buttercream did not form properly. As such it will definitely will not taste correct because the butter has not disbursed within the egg white.

The ratios for Swiss meringue buttercream varies greatly. But the fat and sugar should balance out in a good recipe.

Americans use way too much sugar and fat in everything. They don’t take into consideration flavorings like chocolate and fruit purées that will increase sweetness.


These are my ratios for Swiss meringue buttercream:

• Egg whites 100%
• Sugar 122%
• Unsalted Butter 260%

Batch of Swiss Meringue Buttercream

Heat to minimum of 160°F

• 175g egg whites
• 215g sugar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 455g unsalted butter, cubed 68°F - 70°F
• 1/2 tsp cream of tartar

Flavoring
2 tsp vanilla bean paste
140g dark chocolate, melted and cooled.

Over Bain Marie, heat egg white, sugar, and salt until mixture reaches 160°F.

Place in mixing bowl and begin beating with whisk attachment on medium speed 1 minute. #4

Add cream of tartar, continue beating medium speed for 1 minute. #4

Increase speed to medium high, beat 1 minute. #6

Increase speed to high and beat to stiff peak stage. #8

Change to paddle attachment.

Mix on lowest speed

Smash cubed butter, add piece at a time allowing each piece to mix in. Meringue will loosen into a soft soup like mixture when the butter is added.

After all the butter is added, leave on lowest speed until mixture emulsifies into fluffy butter. This may take 8 to 12 minutes or more.

 

[Cahoot]

If your egg whites did not whip, the likely cause was your bowl and/or whisk was contaminated with oil residue or there was a speck of egg yolk in your egg whites.

The night before wash you’re mixing bowl and whisk attachment with hot soapy water. Rinse thoroughly, then fill the bowl with water and a few tablespoons of vinegar. Swish the whisk in the vinegar water. Rinse everything thoroughly. dry thoroughly.

The vinegar rinse will ensure the bowl and whisk are free of any oil residue.

The photo of your buttercream shows an very under whipped meringue. So the buttercream did not form properly. As such it will definitely will not taste correct because the butter has not disbursed within the egg white.

The ratios for Swiss meringue buttercream varies greatly. But the fat and sugar should balance out in a good recipe.

Americans use way too much sugar and fat in everything. They don’t take into consideration flavorings like chocolate and fruit purées that will increase sweetness.


These are my ratios for Swiss meringue buttercream:

• Egg whites 100%
• Sugar 122%
• Unsalted Butter 260%

Batch of Swiss Meringue Buttercream

Heat to minimum of 160°F

• 175g egg whites
• 215g sugar
• Scant 1/8 tsp fine sea salt
• 455g unsalted butter, cubed 68°F - 70°F
• 1/2 tsp cream of tartar

Flavoring
2 tsp vanilla bean paste
140g dark chocolate, melted and cooled.

Over Bain Marie, heat egg white, sugar, and salt until mixture reaches 160°F.

Place in mixing bowl and begin beating with whisk attachment on medium speed 1 minute. #4

Add cream of tartar, continue beating medium speed for 1 minute. #4

Increase speed to medium high, beat 1 minute. #6

Increase speed to high and beat to stiff peak stage. #8

Change to paddle attachment.

Mix on lowest speed

Smash cubed butter, add piece at a time allowing each piece to mix in. Meringue will loosen into a soft soup like mixture when the butter is added.

After all the butter is added, leave on lowest speed until mixture emulsifies into fluffy butter. This may take 8 to 12 minutes or more.

I did consider the possibility that the meringue wasn't whipping due to fat residue, but could it also have possibly been caused by the temperature of the mixture staying too high? Since when I was finally able to get it to below 85°F, it did start forming some peaks, albeit more on the soft peaks side than stiff peaks.

I'll also admit that I'm lazy and don't usually take the extra precautions in cleaning the bowl and whisk attachment when I make meringues. However I've learned from these forums (since you've been drilling it over and over) that it almost never pays to take shortcuts, so next time I'll follow those cleaning guidelines before making a meringue haha.

I'm curious, how can you tell visually that the meringue in the buttercream is underwhipped?

Also something else, your formula for your Italian buttercream that you posted in another thread had 250% sugar, 300% butter, so over double the sugar but with just a bit more butter compared to your Swiss buttercream. Do you find the Italian buttercream too sweet?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I did consider the possibility that the meringue wasn't whipping due to fat residue, but could it also have possibly been caused by the temperature of the mixture staying too high? Since when I was finally able to get it to below 85°F, it did start forming some peaks, albeit more on the soft peaks side than stiff peaks.

I'll also admit that I'm lazy and don't usually take the extra precautions in cleaning the bowl and whisk attachment when I make meringues. However I've learned from these forums (since you've been drilling it over and over) that it almost never pays to take shortcuts, so next time I'll follow those cleaning guidelines before making a meringue haha.

I'm curious, how can you tell visually that the meringue in the buttercream is underwhipped?

Also something else, your formula for your Italian buttercream that you posted in another thread had 250% sugar, 300% butter, so over double the sugar but with just a bit more butter compared to your Swiss buttercream. Do you find the Italian buttercream too sweet?

I don’t think the temperature of the egg whites prevented them from whipping. I’ve whipped egg whites while they were above 85°F then added my butter when my meringue was in the 85°F range. Stella Parks heats her egg whites to a whopping 185°F, then adds the butter when the merignue is 90°F. Although she adds the butter at a very cool 65°F. I just have never had much luck with colder butter. I always end up with butter bits in my meringue, so I go for warmer butter.

When egg whites don’t whip, it is usually an oil residue problem or yolk in the egg whites.

Italian meringue is a bit sweeter than Swiss meringue. But the boiled sugar is what stabilizes the Italian meringue and kills the bacteria. So you have to use enough boiled sugar syrup to get the job done. But because the sugar is dissolved in water and boiled, it is diluted some, so it is not as sweet as it would be if you added the sugar in raw like is done with a Swiss.

I don’t find the Italian meringue too sweet, but it is definitely sweeter than my Swiss. I used to make Italian more than the Swiss because I like the stability of Italian. But of late, I have gone back to the Swiss because I like the less sweeter buttercream.

I can tell the meringue is under whipped because the buttercream is very tight with very low volume. When the meringue is beaten to the correct consistency, the emulsion will be high volume and very billowy texture. You buttercream still emulsified, but the butter is very heavy because there wasn’t enough meringue to disburse all the butter. Remember, an emulsion is the suspension of tiny droplets of one liquid into another insoluble or miscible. Both butter and the meringue are emulsions: egg whites and butter each have hydrophobic and hydrophilic molecules. When you beat them together, you have to create a new emulsion by binding those hydrophilic molecules. If you have a low volume meringue, the butter isn’t going to have many hydrophilic molecules to bind with. So you have a tight, low volume buttercream.

That buttercream probably won’t hold well either. Don’t be surprised if it starts leaking water in a day or two.

 

[Cahoot]

I don’t think the temperature of the egg whites prevented them from whipping. I’ve whipped egg whites while they were above 85°F then added my butter when my meringue was in the 85°F range. Stella Parks heats her egg whites to a whopping 185°F, then adds the butter when the merignue is 90°F. Although she adds the butter at a very cool 65°F. I just have never had much luck with colder butter. I always end up with butter bits in my meringue, so I go for warmer butter.

When egg whites don’t whip, it is usually an oil residue problem or yolk in the egg whites.

Italian meringue is a bit sweeter than Swiss meringue. But the boiled sugar is what stabilizes the Italian meringue and kills the bacteria. So you have to use enough boiled sugar syrup to get the job done. But because the sugar is dissolved in water and boiled, it is diluted some, so it is not as sweet as it would be if you added the sugar in raw like is done with a Swiss.

I don’t find the Italian meringue too sweet, but it is definitely sweeter than my Swiss. I used to make Italian more than the Swiss because I like the stability of Italian. But of late, I have gone back to the Swiss because I like the less sweeter buttercream.

I can tell the meringue is under whipped because the buttercream is very tight with very low volume. When the meringue is beaten to the correct consistency, the emulsion will be high volume and very billowy texture. You buttercream still emulsified, but the butter is very heavy because there wasn’t enough meringue to disburse all the butter. Remember, an emulsion is the suspension of tiny droplets of one liquid into another insoluble or miscible. Both butter and the meringue are emulsions: egg whites and butter each have hydrophobic and hydrophilic molecules. When you beat them together, you have to create a new emulsion by binding those hydrophilic molecules. If you have a low volume meringue, the butter isn’t going to have many hydrophilic molecules to bind with. So you have a tight, low volume buttercream.

That buttercream probably won’t hold well either. Don’t be surprised if it starts leaking water in a day or two.

Hopefully next time I make a meringue buttercream I won't have this problem and then I'll be able to see the visual difference. I'm always learning with every bake

I actually made the buttercream a week ago for a Christmas Eve cake. Fortunately it held for the 3 or 4 days before the cake was finished and didn't leak, but it was still too butter-y as I mentioned and definitely not as good as it should've been.

Bonus pics: first time trying a St. Honoré tip! Making perfectly smooth, clean sides is still impossible without a turntable buuut I ended up with less buttercream than planned (due to the aforementioned problem lol) so had to make do with minimal decoration.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hopefully next time I make a meringue buttercream I won't have this problem and then I'll be able to see the visual difference. I'm always learning with every bake

I actually made the buttercream a week ago for a Christmas Eve cake. Fortunately it held for the 3 or 4 days before the cake was finished and didn't leak, but it was still too butter-y as I mentioned and definitely not as good as it should've been.

Bonus pics: first time trying a St. Honoré tip! Making perfectly smooth, clean sides is still impossible without a turntable buuut I ended up with less buttercream than planned (due to the aforementioned problem lol) so had to make do with minimal decoration.

View attachment 3521View attachment 3522

@Cahoot, oh the cake still turned out lovely! St. Honore is my favorite piping tip. Meringue buttercreams are buttery in flavor. They are definitely better with flavorings. I always use vanilla bean paste or real vanilla bean. Even with chocolate, I add a good dose of vanilla. I do not skimp on the flavoring. The meringue buttercreams will hold up well with a lot of different types of add ins:

Alcohol: up to 60 ml

Puree: up to 250 g

Chocolate: 180 g

Nuts, candy pieces, cookie pieces, etc.,: 240g or to preference

Caramel: 240g or to preference

When the meringue is whipped well, and the butter is properly dispersed in the meringue, it makes a very lovely icing. I find the buttercream is always better the day after.

 

[Cahoot]

@Cahoot, oh the cake still turned out lovely! St. Honore is my favorite piping tip. Meringue buttercreams are buttery in flavor. They are definitely better with flavorings. I always use vanilla bean paste or real vanilla bean. Even with chocolate, I add a good dose of vanilla. I do not skimp on the flavoring. The meringue buttercreams will hold up well with a lot of different types of add ins:

Alcohol: up to 60 ml

Puree: up to 250 g

Chocolate: 180 g

Nuts, candy pieces, cookie pieces, etc.,: 240g or to preference

Caramel: 240g or to preference

When the meringue is whipped well, and the butter is properly dispersed in the meringue, it makes a very lovely icing. I find the buttercream is always better the day after.

For the caramel variation, what's the consistency of the caramel that you use? Something that's like a runny sauce, or a thicker spread-like consistency? I made an Italian meringue buttercream with peanut butter recently, and also replaced a small portion of the butter with peanut butter too since that's what I've seen Stella Parks do with her coconut variation of her Swiss buttercream, but found that I couldn't add quite as much as I'd liked before it made the buttercream too soft.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

For the caramel variation, what's the consistency of the caramel that you use? Something that's like a runny sauce, or a thicker spread-like consistency? I made an Italian meringue buttercream with peanut butter recently, and also replaced a small portion of the butter with peanut butter too since that's what I've seen Stella Parks do with her coconut variation of her Swiss buttercream, but found that I couldn't add quite as much as I'd liked before it made the buttercream too soft.

the caramel sauce should be thick, but fluid.

Water 50%
Sugar 100%
Heavy cream 60% - 75%
add some vanilla and a salt

about 200g of sugar should make enough for a standard batch (170 ml egg white) meringue buttercream.

Follow Stella Parks instructions. But one thing after adding water, sugar, and stirring.

Wash down the sides of pan with a wet pastry brush two or three times until syrup comes to a boil to rinse off any sugar crystals. If any sugar crystals are on the side of the pan, it will cause recrystallization to occur in the syrup, and your caramel will never form.

The butter is a fat that coagulates when it is cold. Peanut butter doesn’t have any of those properties. Rather peanut butter is mixed with binders. The binders don’t coagulate in the same way as fat. Texture is very different.

The coconut oil is also sensitive to heat and will coagulate when it is cold. But it is also very heat sensitive, much more so than butter.

They make a powdered form of peanut butter. If you want to increase the amount of peanut butter flavor, you can use a combination of peanut butter and powdered peanut butter. Just beat powdered peanut butter in with the peanut butter first.

Easy Caramel Sauce Recipe

The thick and gooey caramel sauce of your dreams is easier and faster than you think.

www.seriouseats.com

 

[Cahoot]

the caramel sauce should be thick, but fluid.

Water 50%
Sugar 100%
Heavy cream 60% - 75%
add some vanilla and a salt

about 200g of sugar should make enough for a standard batch (170 ml egg white) meringue buttercream.

Follow Stella Parks instructions. But one thing after adding water, sugar, and stirring.

Wash down the sides of pan with a wet pastry brush two or three times until syrup comes to a boil to rinse off any sugar crystals. If any sugar crystals are on the side of the pan, it will cause recrystallization to occur in the syrup, and your caramel will never form.

The butter is a fat that coagulates when it is cold. Peanut butter doesn’t have any of those properties. Rather peanut butter is mixed with binders. The binders don’t coagulate in the same way as fat. Texture is very different.

The coconut oil is also sensitive to heat and will coagulate when it is cold. But it is also very heat sensitive, much more so than butter.

They make a powdered form of peanut butter. If you want to increase the amount of peanut butter flavor, you can use a combination of peanut butter and powdered peanut butter. Just beat powdered peanut butter in with the peanut butter first.

Easy Caramel Sauce Recipe

The thick and gooey caramel sauce of your dreams is easier and faster than you think.

www.seriouseats.com

When I looked up the subject of peanut butter buttercreams online that's also what many people suggested - doing a combination of peanut butter + powdered PB. Unfortunately I didn't have any so couldn't go with that option. I've heard people say good things about PB2, especially using it as a lower-calorie substitute for regular peanut butter, so I may actually get some.

Going a bit off on a tangent on the subject of caramel though, Stella writes that butter is unnecessary for caramel. I've seen a few recipes that are much fussier than her recipe of just sugar + cream: the general process in those recipes involves heating cream + milk + glucose together while sugar + glucose is cooked in another pan to make a caramel; the caramel is deglazed with the dairy mixture and cooked to desired temperature (usually 105-106°C/221-223°F), then cooled to 70°C/158°C before the butter is added using an immersion blender. Have you tried using that method? I'm wondering how the much fussier method (in terms of steps and ingredients) compares to Stella's ultra-simple method for caramel.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

When I looked up the subject of peanut butter buttercreams online that's also what many people suggested - doing a combination of peanut butter + powdered PB. Unfortunately I didn't have any so couldn't go with that option. I've heard people say good things about PB2, especially using it as a lower-calorie substitute for regular peanut butter, so I may actually get some.

Going a bit off on a tangent on the subject of caramel though, Stella writes that butter is unnecessary for caramel. I've seen a few recipes that are much fussier than her recipe of just sugar + cream: the general process in those recipes involves heating cream + milk + glucose together while sugar + glucose is cooked in another pan to make a caramel; the caramel is deglazed with the dairy mixture and cooked to desired temperature (usually 105-106°C/221-223°F), then cooled to 70°C/158°C before the butter is added using an immersion blender. Have you tried using that method? I'm wondering how the much fussier method (in terms of steps and ingredients) compares to Stella's ultra-simple method for caramel.

I don’t add additional fat when making sauce for topping, filling, or for buttercream. But, I add it for flavor when making soft chewy candy.

Glucose, or invert sugar is added to safeguard against recrystallization. But it’s not necessary. As long as you wash down the sides of the pot with water to ensure there’s no sugar crystals.

also when I add the water to the sugar, I’ll let the water and sugar sit in the pot for about five minutes to allow the sugar to hydrate before I even touch it. No stirring nothing just let it sit and begin to dissolve.

The type of sugar you use is very important. It has to be cane sugar because sugar beet sugar will not caramelize properly.

Some caramel can be a bit on the fussy side. I have a formula that has glucose, butter, cream, and pectin.

 

[Cahoot]

I don’t add additional fat when making sauce for topping, filling, or for buttercream. But, I add it for flavor when making soft chewy candy.

Glucose, or invert sugar is added to safeguard against recrystallization. But it’s not necessary. As long as you wash down the sides of the pot with water to ensure there’s no sugar crystals.

also when I add the water to the sugar, I’ll let the water and sugar sit in the pot for about five minutes to allow the sugar to hydrate before I even touch it. No stirring nothing just let it sit and begin to dissolve.

The type of sugar you use is very important. It has to be cane sugar because sugar beet sugar will not caramelize properly.

Some caramel can be a bit on the fussy side. I have a formula that has glucose, butter, cream, and pectin.

A tip I saw from a pastry chef was to keep a separate brush specifically for making caramel, as brushes also used for other purposes might not be completely clean, and so you risk adding contaminants to the syrup that actually increase the likelihood of crystallization. However I've never had an issue with crystallization myself and sometimes altogether skip brushing down the sides, so not sure how important it is to have a separate brush for this.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

A tip I saw from a pastry chef was to keep a separate brush specifically for making caramel, as brushes also used for other purposes might not be completely clean, and so you risk adding contaminants to the syrup that actually increase the likelihood of crystallization. However I've never had an issue with crystallization myself and sometimes altogether skip brushing down the sides, so not sure how important it is to have a separate brush for this.

I’ve only had sugar crystallize on me once. And I count the number of batches of Italian meringue and caramel I’ve made over the years. But on the other hand I’ve seen it happen in a commercial kitchen with very experienced pastry chefs cooking the sugar—once in back to back batches. So it definitely happens.

I keep about a dozen pastry brushes on hand. Whenever I go to the restaurant supply store I pick up a couple extra so I always have several unopened ones in a couple of sized in my utensil hanger. The standard pastry brushes are inexpensive, and they do not last long. Always check to see if the brush is shedding before you use it. If is is shedding, toss it.

My least favorite is the OXO brand. That brand sheds a lot. And that can be dangerous because the fibers blend into the color of the pastry. It can easily be eaten and get stuck in someone’s throat.

I prefer the silicone brushes because they can be serialized and they don’t shed. They cost about $10 - $15 USD. But they last a long time. They aren’t always stiff enough for the task, so I still need to keep traditional pastry brushes on hand.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59 Swiss meringue has been driving me crazy now. It doesn't whip to nearly to the volume that it should. I do all the cleaning steps for the mixer bowl and the whisk: washing with soap, soaking in vinegar-water, rinsing, and drying. The mixture is heated to 165°F on the stovetop, then whipped starting on medium-low speed and gradually going up to high speed.

However the final meringue seems to be incredibly low volume (pictures below). For reference this batch was 200 g egg whites, 400 g sugar in a 6 qt KitchenAid bowl. When I make Italian meringue with even fewer egg whites, the meringue is at least 50% more volume than what's in the bowl there. It was whipped for about 10 minutes to 90°F, so at least there wasn't the temperature problem from before.

The finished buttercream:

But differently from last time, the buttercream was much lighter, about 170 g/cup. Admittedly I was also experimenting with beating in the butter at a higher speed and it ended up with many air bubbles, so the density was probably a bit lower than it should've been. When I compare the finished buttercream with my previous picture, it's noticeably less dense and more billowy, but it's hard to say if it's still less fluffy than it should be.

As a subjective observation, the buttercream did taste very light to me, since it was used for a cake with heavier fillings (nuts and praliné). In fact I even thought it was almost like whipped cream, as there was such a big contrast between the lightness of the buttercream and the heaviness of the praliné.

So the finished buttercream is definitely an improvement, but I'm still unsure of if (and what) I'm doing anything wrong with the meringue itself.

 

[ShuBunny]

This is like virtual baking school for me, where I am not the brightest student in the class, but I learn more when the brighter students ask questions . Hahah!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59 Swiss meringue has been driving me crazy now. It doesn't whip to nearly to the volume that it should. I do all the cleaning steps for the mixer bowl and the whisk: washing with soap, soaking in vinegar-water, rinsing, and drying. The mixture is heated to 165°F on the stovetop, then whipped starting on medium-low speed and gradually going up to high speed.

However the final meringue seems to be incredibly low volume (pictures below). For reference this batch was 200 g egg whites, 400 g sugar in a 6 qt KitchenAid bowl. When I make Italian meringue with even fewer egg whites, the meringue is at least 50% more volume than what's in the bowl there. It was whipped for about 10 minutes to 90°F, so at least there wasn't the temperature problem from before.

View attachment 3738View attachment 3739

The finished buttercream:

View attachment 3740

But differently from last time, the buttercream was much lighter, about 170 g/cup. Admittedly I was also experimenting with beating in the butter at a higher speed and it ended up with many air bubbles, so the density was probably a bit lower than it should've been. When I compare the finished buttercream with my previous picture, it's noticeably less dense and more billowy, but it's hard to say if it's still less fluffy than it should be.

As a subjective observation, the buttercream did taste very light to me, since it was used for a cake with heavier fillings (nuts and praliné). In fact I even thought it was almost like whipped cream, as there was such a big contrast between the lightness of the buttercream and the heaviness of the praliné.

So the finished buttercream is definitely an improvement, but I'm still unsure of if (and what) I'm doing anything wrong with the meringue itself.

@Cahoot

The 6 qt is a very large bowl. 200mL of egg whites is the amount I use for my 4.5 qt bowl.

The next time you make buttercream, note the volume measurements as you along.

Weight the egg whites and note the volume; then add the sugar and note the volume. Then transfer to the container for heating.

If you don’t have a large 4 cup or beaker measuring cup, then any clean, oil free container with flat bottom and straight sides that you can use to mark the volume. Clean and dry the container, then measure the volume of the egg whites after they are whipped and before you add the butter to see how much they increased in volume.


200g egg whites
400g sugar
____ g unsalted butter
____ g total weight of ingredients


Volume totals:

____ Total number of cups of raw egg whites

____ Total number of cups of raw egg whites and sugar

____ Total number of cups of whipped egg whites and sugar

____ Total number of cups of finished meringue butter cream


If you are getting 4 cups of buttercream from a batch using 200g egg whites, I would say that is low volume. But if are getting 6 cups or more, I would say that is about right.


Beware the total weight of finished buttercream will be different from weight of ingredients since water evaporation from heating the egg whites will occur.


what type of sugar are you using? Is is cane sugar or sugar beet sugar?

are you using cream of tartar to stabilize the egg whites?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Cahoot
BTW, your meringue looks very good. Ditto the finished buttercream. When there is a bunch of air bubbles, the butter was the wrong temperature, so did not emulsify properly; butter was added too fast; wrong attachment was used; and/or speed of the mixer was too high. All things in baking take time. Baking is not for the impatient. I am always baffled by people who get into baking, then complain endlessly that they don’t have time for all the processes involved.

 

[Cahoot]

@Norcalbaker59

I only have the single 6 qt bowl so I have make do with it for all batch sizes. A larger batch size would definitely be ideal, but there's only so much dessert my family can eat at a time!

I always use cane sugar and 3 g cream of tartar for this batch (I always use 1.5% weight of egg whites). As an aside, almost all sugar manufactured in Canada is cane sugar. There's only one refinery in the country, located in Alberta, that makes beet sugar. Sugar made from beet sugar can actually be distinguished by a black stamp on the bag that starts with the number 22.

This was made with 520 g butter, and I did measure the total weight of the finished buttercream to be around 1050 g (forgot the exact number). If we round my measured density up to 180 g/cup, then that would mean about 5.8 cups of buttercream. So the final volume of the buttercream seems to be okay, which matches how light I thought it was when actually tasting it. It's just the meringue visually seems to lack volume when compared to Italian meringue I've made before; I'll have to test the actual volume next time like you said.

For this batch of buttercream, I know for sure that the speed of the mixer was too high. I beat in the butter at speed 5 just to test how bad the air bubbles would be, and now I know it's pretty bad haha. I made sure that the meringue and butter were at the right temperatures before adding and the buttercream ended up at a perfect 72°F; and I did use the paddle and not the whisk. It's possible the butter was also added too quickly but I always add it in small increments (about 20-30 g) and waiting for it to be mostly incorporated before the next addition, so I don't think that would've been a problem.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

@Norcalbaker59

I only have the single 6 qt bowl so I have make do with it for all batch sizes. A larger batch size would definitely be ideal, but there's only so much dessert my family can eat at a time!

I always use cane sugar and 3 g cream of tartar for this batch (I always use 1.5% weight of egg whites). As an aside, almost all sugar manufactured in Canada is cane sugar. There's only one refinery in the country, located in Alberta, that makes beet sugar. Sugar made from beet sugar can actually be distinguished by a black stamp on the bag that starts with the number 22.

This was made with 520 g butter, and I did measure the total weight of the finished buttercream to be around 1050 g (forgot the exact number). If we round my measured density up to 180 g/cup, then that would mean about 5.8 cups of buttercream. So the final volume of the buttercream seems to be okay, which matches how light I thought it was when actually tasting it. It's just the meringue visually seems to lack volume when compared to Italian meringue I've made before; I'll have to test the actual volume next time like you said.

For this batch of buttercream, I know for sure that the speed of the mixer was too high. I beat in the butter at speed 5 just to test how bad the air bubbles would be, and now I know it's pretty bad haha. I made sure that the meringue and butter were at the right temperatures before adding and the buttercream ended up at a perfect 72°F; and I did use the paddle and not the whisk. It's possible the butter was also added too quickly but I always add it in small increments (about 20-30 g) and waiting for it to be mostly incorporated before the next addition, so I don't think that would've been a problem.

@Cahoot

Yes it doesn’t sound like your finished buttercream volume is off that much. Try lowering the temperature of the heated egg whites to 160°F (70°C). The higher the temperature, the more protein denaturation coagulation and water evaporation occurs.

Whipping is also protein denaturation, but when the whites are whipped, air bubbles fill the spaces between the hydrophobic molecules and water molecules creating more volume. That doesn’t happen in heat coagulation. 160°F (70°C) will still kill the bacteria, but the lower temperature will keep more water in the whites and not cause as much protein denaturation coagulation from heat.

Let me know if you get more volume with a lower heat.

 

[Mona]

It sounds like your meringue might be retaining heat due to the bowl-lift stand mixer. Try cooling the bowl in an ice bath or a cooler area while whipping at a lower speed. Also, consider reducing the amount of butter a bit, as a higher butter ratio can make the buttercream dense and overly buttery. For the best results, ensure the butter is softened but not melted, and aim for a working temperature around 72-73°F. If it's still too dense, letting it warm slightly might help.