Wow, that's weird

[superbaker007]

Today i made an 80% hydration dough for ciabatta, i mixed it for 22 minutes
on medium speed using my Bosch hand mixer, but nothing worked.
The dough still didn't develop enough gluten and was too sticky...
I mean, what ? How come using the mixer alone, isn't enough for kneading any dough ?
What should i do so next time it will work ?

 

[retired baker]

Mix it , then leave it covered for 30 minutes, give it a few folds and see how it feels.
the co2 will strengthen the gluten.

 

[superbaker007]

Mix it , then leave it covered for 30 minutes, give it a few folds and see how it feels.
the co2 will strengthen the gluten.

I thought the mixer alone will do all the job.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I thought the mixer alone will do all the job.

As with all bakers who are just starting out with bread, here are a few helpful things to know—especially when working with high-hydration doughs:


1. Doughs with 70% hydration or more will always feel sticky. This is completely normal and expected, even when the dough is well developed.

2. An 80% hydration dough is considered very high. Even with fully developed gluten, it will never feel dry or smooth like lower-hydration dough. It will remain very sticky and soft throughout the entire mixing, folding, and shaping process.

3. Hand mixers cannot knead bread dough properly. They’re designed for beating light mixtures like cake batter or whipped cream. They simply don’t have the power or the right motion to develop the gluten structure bread dough requires—no matter how long you run them.

4. Even stand mixers have limitations with high-hydration doughs. The wetter and heavier the dough, the more resistance it creates against the mixer. This can reduce the effectiveness of kneading, especially at higher hydration levels.

5. High-hydration doughs take experience and practice. If you’re just beginning, I recommend starting with simpler recipes that include:

• 65%–69% hydration doughs, which are easier to handle

• An autolyse (rest) period of 30–60 minutes after mixing just the flour and water—this gives the dough a head start on gluten development

• The stretch-and-fold method, a gentle, hands-on way to build gluten strength without needing a stand mixer or intensive kneading


If your goal is to work up to high-hydration breads (which can be delicious and rewarding!), remember: working with sticky, soft dough is a skill you’ll build over time. Choose mixing methods that match your comfort level and equipment. With patience and practice, you’ll get there.

 

[superbaker007]

As with all bakers who are just starting out with bread, here are a few helpful things to know—especially when working with high-hydration doughs:


1. Doughs with 70% hydration or more will always feel sticky. This is completely normal and expected, even when the dough is well developed.

2. An 80% hydration dough is considered very high. Even with fully developed gluten, it will never feel dry or smooth like lower-hydration dough. It will remain very sticky and soft throughout the entire mixing, folding, and shaping process.

3. Hand mixers cannot knead bread dough properly. They’re designed for beating light mixtures like cake batter or whipped cream. They simply don’t have the power or the right motion to develop the gluten structure bread dough requires—no matter how long you run them.

4. Even stand mixers have limitations with high-hydration doughs. The wetter and heavier the dough, the more resistance it creates against the mixer. This can reduce the effectiveness of kneading, especially at higher hydration levels.

5. High-hydration doughs take experience and practice. If you’re just beginning, I recommend starting with simpler recipes that include:

• 65%–69% hydration doughs, which are easier to handle

• An autolyse (rest) period of 30–60 minutes after mixing just the flour and water—this gives the dough a head start on gluten development

• The stretch-and-fold method, a gentle, hands-on way to build gluten strength without needing a stand mixer or intensive kneading


If your goal is to work up to high-hydration breads (which can be delicious and rewarding!), remember: working with sticky, soft dough is a skill you’ll build over time. Choose mixing methods that match your comfort level and equipment. With patience and practice, you’ll get there.

I'm not such a beginner.
I worked with doughs of 50-66 percent hydration and even made a brioche bread,
which is low hydration but i used my hand mixer for that because of the high amount of butter in the dough,
it takes too long to knead it by hand.
With that my mixer helped me.

 

[retired baker]

I thought the mixer alone will do all the job.

you could try a stronger flour, high gluten , but its not usually sold in stores.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I'm not such a beginner.
I worked with doughs of 50-66 percent hydration and even made a brioche bread,
which is low hydration but i used my hand mixer for that because of the high amount of butter in the dough,
it takes too long to knead it by hand.
With that my mixer helped me.

Doughs with 50%–66% hydration are relatively low in moisture and therefore very easy to handle.

I cannot stress enough that hand mixers are not designed to manage high-hydration dough effectively. Or the fact that a mixer isn’t required at all to make excellent bread.

King Arthur Baking Company’s Head Baker, Martin Philip, only included two mixer-based recipes in his cookbook—one of which isn’t even a bread dough. In this video, he discusses the strain bread doughs can place on stand mixers, even sharing that he had to replace a stripped gear on his own mixer due to mixing heavy doughs (around the 3:40 mark).

Using a hand mixer for 22 minutes in place of stretch and folds isn’t just inefficient—it’s unnecessary. Each set of stretch and folds takes about 30 seconds and very little effort. Altogether, three sets require only about 90 seconds of hands-on time and simply involve lifting one side of the dough, stretching it gently, and folding it over itself. There’s no kneading involved.

I bake bread and rolls multiple times a week using anywhere from 72% -80% hydration. I don’t knead any of the doughs.

It is bit of an effort to work butter into brioche. So I understand your use of a mixer for enriched doughs. But as your experience with the 80% hydration dough showed you, a hand mixer is ineffective and exhausting work.

 

[superbaker007]

Doughs with 50%–66% hydration are relatively low in moisture and therefore very easy to handle.

I cannot stress enough that hand mixers are not designed to manage high-hydration dough effectively. Or the fact that a mixer isn’t required at all to make excellent bread.

King Arthur Baking Company’s Head Baker, Martin Philip, only included two mixer-based recipes in his cookbook—one of which isn’t even a bread dough. In this video, he discusses the strain bread doughs can place on stand mixers, even sharing that he had to replace a stripped gear on his own mixer due to mixing heavy doughs (around the 3:40 mark).

Using a hand mixer for 22 minutes in place of stretch and folds isn’t just inefficient—it’s unnecessary. Each set of stretch and folds takes about 30 seconds and very little effort. Altogether, three sets require only about 90 seconds of hands-on time and simply involve lifting one side of the dough, stretching it gently, and folding it over itself. There’s no kneading involved.

I bake bread and rolls multiple times a week using anywhere from 72% -80% hydration. I don’t knead any of the doughs.

It is bit of an effort to work butter into brioche. So I understand your use of a mixer for enriched doughs. But as your experience with the 80% hydration dough showed you, a hand mixer is ineffective and exhausting work.

But how do they do it in bakeries when they make ciabattas ?
Do they do stretches and folds to massive amounts of dough or do they
have special mixers that do all the job ?