Dry milk powder substitute

[The_Asaf]

Hey, I’m making a bread and the recipe calls for 10 g (2/3 tbsp) of dry milk powder and 260 g (1 1/4 cups) of milk. I don’t have any dried milk powder and it’s not been sold near me. What can I substitute the dried milk powder with?
Thank you

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hey, I’m making a bread and the recipe calls for 10 g (2/3 tbsp) of dry milk powder and 260 g (1 1/4 cups) of milk. I don’t have any dried milk powder and it’s not been sold near me. What can I substitute the dried milk powder with?
Thank you

Don’t worry about the dry milk powder. Use of retail store dry milk powder in homemade bread is totally useless. It is no different than adding fresh milk.

The dry milk powder used in commercial baking is high treated at 190°F for 30 minutes. It is treated at high temperatures to change its emulsification properties while destroying certain enzymes that affect yeast development. This type of dry milk powder is used as an emulsifier to create better texture, rise and structural stability in baked goods.

The milk powder that sold in the grocery store is meant for drinking, it is treated at lower temperatures, 160°F for two minutes. It has no emulsification properties and as with all milk, contains the natural enzyme that interferes with yeast development.

In 2010, a woman in Australia named Christine printed a recipe for Hokkaido Milk bread. She is Asian an had adapted a recipe from an Asian food blog, and since she did not know what one of ingredients was, she referred to it as “a kind of natural milk essence“, she arbitrarily replaced that ingredient with 9g of full cream milk powder.

When people copied her recipe, they substituted with just “dry milk powder”. A few people noted that milk powder is a listed ingredient on many baked goods, And touted its used as an emulsifier. The problem is they did not distinguish between high temperature dry milk powder and low temperature dry milk powder.

So there’s a lot of recipes out there using retail milk powder that are a total waste of effort and money since it has no benefit what so ever.

If you are in the US, you can purchase high temperature treated milk powder in small quantities from King Arthur Flour website.

But you don’t even need it. This is my “Hokkaido Milk” bread loaf and I Christine’s original recipe somewhat modified to my liking over the years, and I don’t use any milk dry powder.

Do you can order high temperature dry milk powder here if you are interested


https://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-special-dry-milk-16-oz

 

[The_Asaf]

Don’t worry about the dry milk powder. Use of retail store dry milk powder in homemade bread is totally useless. It is no different than adding fresh milk.

The dry milk powder used in commercial baking is high treated at 190°F for 30 minutes. It is treated at high temperatures to change its emulsification properties while destroying certain enzymes that affect yeast development. This type of dry milk powder is used as an emulsifier to create better texture, rise and structural stability in baked goods.

The milk powder that sold in the grocery store is meant for drinking, it is treated at lower temperatures, 160°F for two minutes. It has no emulsification properties and as with all milk, contains the natural enzyme that interferes with yeast development.

In 2010, a woman in Australia named Christine printed a recipe for Hokkaido Milk bread. She is Asian an had adapted a recipe from an Asian food blog, and since she did not know what one of ingredients was, she referred to it as “a kind of natural milk essence“, she arbitrarily replaced that ingredient with 9g of full cream milk powder.

When people copied her recipe, they substituted with just “dry milk powder”. A few people noted that milk powder is a listed ingredient on many baked goods, And touted its used as an emulsifier. The problem is they did not distinguish between high temperature dry milk powder and low temperature dry milk powder.

So there’s a lot of recipes out there using retail milk powder that are a total waste of effort and money since it has no benefit what so ever.

If you are in the US, you can purchase high temperature treated milk powder in small quantities from King Arthur Flour website.

But you don’t even need it. This is my “Hokkaido Milk” bread loaf and I Christine’s original recipe somewhat modified to my liking over the years, and I don’t use any milk dry powder.

View attachment 2518

Do you can order high temperature dry milk powder here if you are interested


https://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-special-dry-milk-16-oz

Wow! Thank you for the great explanation!
Your bread looks amazing

 

[Theoacme]

Don’t worry about the dry milk powder. Use of retail store dry milk powder in homemade bread is totally useless. It is no different than adding fresh milk.

The dry milk powder used in commercial baking is high treated at 190°F for 30 minutes. It is treated at high temperatures to change its emulsification properties while destroying certain enzymes that affect yeast development. This type of dry milk powder is used as an emulsifier to create better texture, rise and structural stability in baked goods.

The milk powder that sold in the grocery store is meant for drinking, it is treated at lower temperatures, 160°F for two minutes. It has no emulsification properties and as with all milk, contains the natural enzyme that interferes with yeast development.

In 2010, a woman in Australia named Christine printed a recipe for Hokkaido Milk bread. She is Asian an had adapted a recipe from an Asian food blog, and since she did not know what one of ingredients was, she referred to it as “a kind of natural milk essence“, she arbitrarily replaced that ingredient with 9g of full cream milk powder.

When people copied her recipe, they substituted with just “dry milk powder”. A few people noted that milk powder is a listed ingredient on many baked goods, And touted its used as an emulsifier. The problem is they did not distinguish between high temperature dry milk powder and low temperature dry milk powder.

So there’s a lot of recipes out there using retail milk powder that are a total waste of effort and money since it has no benefit what so ever.

If you are in the US, you can purchase high temperature treated milk powder in small quantities from King Arthur Flour website.

But you don’t even need it. This is my “Hokkaido Milk” bread loaf and I Christine’s original recipe somewhat modified to my liking over the years, and I don’t use any milk dry powder.

View attachment 2518

Do you can order high temperature dry milk powder here if you are interested


https://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-special-dry-milk-16-oz

A somewhat related pair of questions: I use a breadmaker machine (this is not a paid, unpaid, or other endorsement, but the machine I have, and find acceptably satisfactory for my use, is the Hamilton Beach BM07, and of course, YMMV), and I have so far only seen recipes using dry milk powder in whole wheat bread recipes (not white bread recipes, French bread recipes, or pizza dough recipes).

I presume the reason that the dry milk powder is very useful for whole wheat bread recipes, and not at all for white bread recipes, is because that the whole wheat flour is more dense, and the yeast in those doughs need all the help it can get to rise?

Second, the whole wheat bread recipe included with my machine (one using 100% whole wheat flour, not 1/3 whole wheat flour with 2/3 white bread flour) calls for the dry milk powder AND vital wheat gluten. I'm so not a baker, but IIRC, adding the vital wheat gluten to whole wheat bread recipes also provides more of a rise, and thus, a less dense loaf, than otherwise?

I just tried making a 1 1/2 pound loaf of whole wheat bread, using solely King Arthur Golden Wheat Flour (not KA whole wheat flour, or regular bread flour, or (gasp!) white enriched flour). The included recipe called for both 4 t (20 ml) vital wheat gluten and 2 T (30 ml) dry milk powder - neither of which I had on hand.

I did not use any milk to replace the dry milk powder, solely using the quantities of water and oil specified in the recipe.

The loaf turned out OK, about as dense as I could have expected - but this is making me wonder if either the vital wheat gluten, or the dry milk powder, or both, would have made a noticeably better everyday loaf of bread?

(In case anyone is wondering why I use "t" and "T" - when I was a teenager, way back when, Sherman Kaplan, then a radio reporter from WBBM-AM in Chicago, when I was growing up, also trebled as their film critic and their recipe giver, and he always read teaspoons in his recipes as "little t", and tablespoons as "big T", and that stuck with me for all these years )

 

[Norcalbaker59]

A somewhat related pair of questions: I use a breadmaker machine (this is not a paid, unpaid, or other endorsement, but the machine I have, and find acceptably satisfactory for my use, is the Hamilton Beach BM07, and of course, YMMV), and I have so far only seen recipes using dry milk powder in whole wheat bread recipes (not white bread recipes, French bread recipes, or pizza dough recipes).

I presume the reason that the dry milk powder is very useful for whole wheat bread recipes, and not at all for white bread recipes, is because that the whole wheat flour is more dense, and the yeast in those doughs need all the help it can get to rise?

Second, the whole wheat bread recipe included with my machine (one using 100% whole wheat flour, not 1/3 whole wheat flour with 2/3 white bread flour) calls for the dry milk powder AND vital wheat gluten. I'm so not a baker, but IIRC, adding the vital wheat gluten to whole wheat bread recipes also provides more of a rise, and thus, a less dense loaf, than otherwise?

I just tried making a 1 1/2 pound loaf of whole wheat bread, using solely King Arthur Golden Wheat Flour (not KA whole wheat flour, or regular bread flour, or (gasp!) white enriched flour). The included recipe called for both 4 t (20 ml) vital wheat gluten and 2 T (30 ml) dry milk powder - neither of which I had on hand.

I did not use any milk to replace the dry milk powder, solely using the quantities of water and oil specified in the recipe.

The loaf turned out OK, about as dense as I could have expected - but this is making me wonder if either the vital wheat gluten, or the dry milk powder, or both, would have made a noticeably better everyday loaf of bread?

(In case anyone is wondering why I use "t" and "T" - when I was a teenager, way back when, Sherman Kaplan, then a radio reporter from WBBM-AM in Chicago, when I was growing up, also trebled as their film critic and their recipe giver, and he always read teaspoons in his recipes as "little t", and tablespoons as "big T", and that stuck with me for all these years )

QUESTION“I presume the reason that the dry milk powder is very useful for whole wheat bread recipes, and not at all for white bread recipes, is because that the whole wheat flour is more dense, and the yeast in those doughs need all the help it can get to rise?”


ANSWER: The only type of milk powder that significantly affects bread baking is High-Temperature Non-Fat Dry Milk (HT-NFDM). This is different from regular retail milk powder, which is simply dried milk intended to be reconstituted for drinking.

HT-NFDM can be used in virtually any bread recipe, but it’s especially helpful when working with high-extraction flours like whole wheat (100% extraction). Whole wheat flour absorbs much more water than lower-extraction flours like all-purpose (around 70% extraction) or bread flour (around 73% extraction). This high hydration can make the dough feel slack and heavy.

HT-NFDM binds with water, which helps improve the dough’s texture and manage hydration. It also functions as an emulsifier—so if the dough contains fat, HT-NFDM helps bind the fat and water together more effectively, leading to a better crumb structure.

That said, whole wheat flour will always produce a denser loaf with less oven spring than white flours, due to the bran and germ content.


QUESTION: “Second, the whole wheat bread recipe included with my machine (one using 100% whole wheat flour, not 1/3 whole wheat flour with 2/3 white bread flour) calls for the dry milk powder AND vital wheat gluten. I’m so not a baker, but IIRC, adding the vital wheat gluten to whole wheat bread recipes also provides more of a rise, and thus, a less dense loaf, than otherwise?”

ANSWER:,Yes, that’s correct—adding vital wheat gluten can help improve rise and structure in 100% whole wheat breads.

To clarify why, it helps to understand a bit about how flour is milled. Whole wheat flour is a 100% extraction flour, meaning 100% of the wheat kernel is used—including the bran, endosperm, and germ. When wheat is milled, these three parts are separated and then recombined in specific proportions, depending on the desired extraction rate. In whole wheat flour, all parts are retained. In lower-extraction flours, the bran and germ are partially or fully removed. The extraction rate determines the type of flour: cake and pastry flours are around 45% extraction, all-purpose flour is typically 70–73%, and bread flour is about 75%.

Although whole wheat flour is high in protein, the bran and germ interfere with gluten development in two ways:

• Physically: The coarse bran and germ particles can cut through developing gluten strands during mixing and kneading, weakening the structure.
• Chemically: Enzymes in the germ can disrupt gluten formation.

It’s important to remember that wheat flour doesn’t contain gluten directly—it contains two proteins, gliadin and glutenin, which must combine with water and be agitated (mixed or kneaded) to form gluten. The bran and germ compete for that water, limiting how much gluten can form.

Vital wheat gluten is essentially concentrated gluten-forming proteins—mostly gliadin and glutenin. Adding it to whole wheat dough boosts the potential for a strong gluten network, compensating for what’s lost due to the bran and germ.

 

[Étienne]

HT-NFDM can be used in virtually any bread recipe, but it’s especially helpful when working with high-extraction flours like whole wheat (100% extraction). Whole wheat flour absorbs much more water than lower-extraction flours like all-purpose (around 70% extraction) or bread flour (around 73% extraction). This high hydration can make the dough feel slack and heavy.

I am intrigued to learn that flours can be rated as to their relative absorption of water. Having been baking for many years as a self taught home baker, I was always puzzled by variations in absorption, despite thinking weighing ingredients would compensate for atmospheric differences in humidity, but clearly there appear to be objective methods to predict these differences in absorption.

I'd like to learn more on the subject. I'd like to learn more on how flours are rated and how to effectively manage the differences to produce consistent results?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I am intrigued to learn that flours can be rated as to their relative absorption of water. Having been baking for many years as a self taught home baker, I was always puzzled by variations in absorption, despite thinking weighing ingredients would compensate for atmospheric differences in humidity, but clearly there appear to be objective methods to predict these differences in absorption.

I'd like to learn more on the subject. I'd like to learn more on how flours are rated and how to effectively manage the differences to produce consistent results?

It helps to have a basic understanding of how flour is milled, but even with that knowledge, predicting absorption rates isn’t possible for several reasons. First, wheat flour can be milled from a wide range of wheat types—red or white, hard or soft, winter or spring—and each absorbs water differently. For example, hard red winter wheat generally absorbs more than soft white wheat. Second, ash content (a measure of mineral content) varies not only by wheat variety and soil, but even from acre to acre within the same field. Finally, retail flour labels don’t list key details like wheat variety, extraction rate, protein content, or ash content, making it impossible to know exactly what you’re working with.

Some mills do custom mill and blend flours to a baker’s exact specifications—but these services are reserved for commercial bakeries, not home bakers.

Central Milling retail flours list wheat type, protein, ash, and any flour treatments on their website. But they are the exception, not the rule in providing flour specifications to the general public

 

[retired baker]

I am intrigued to learn that flours can be rated as to their relative absorption of water. Having been baking for many years as a self taught home baker, I was always puzzled by variations in absorption, despite thinking weighing ingredients would compensate for atmospheric differences in humidity, but clearly there appear to be objective methods to predict these differences in absorption.

I'd like to learn more on the subject. I'd like to learn more on how flours are rated and how to effectively manage the differences to produce consistent results?

you have no control over moisture content of flour, neither do the mills.
Once its bagged and stored or shipped its out of anyones control.
It could be done but it would be stupid to go to the expense of micro control of humidity when its so simple to just compensate at the final stage when mixing.
In the end you have to know how the dough should feel and that comes with repetitive experience and initial guidance.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

you have no control over moisture content of flour, neither do the mills.
Once its bagged and stored or shipped its out of anyones control.
It could be done but it would be stupid to go to the expense of micro control of humidity when its so simple to just compensate at the final stage when mixing.
In the end you have to know how the dough should feel and that comes with repetitive experience and initial guidance.

Saying “you have no control over the moisture content of flour, and neither do the mills” isn’t accurate.

Mills absolutely control moisture content—it’s required by FDA regulations. Since moisture can lead to microbial growth, the FDA sets a limit of 15% moisture.

Mills keep the majority of flours around 14%, and will go even lower if a specific flour needs it. The FDA is mainly focused on food safety and preventing spoilage, but the milling industry also cares about how the flour performs in baking. So they aim for the lower moisture levels to balance both safety and performance.

 

[retired baker]

"Once its bagged and stored or shipped its out of anyones control."

 

[Norcalbaker59]

"Once its bagged and stored or shipped its out of anyones control."

Flour would need to be stored at high temperatures for an extended period to lose a significant amount of moisture. One study found that flour kept at 99°F for 30 consecutive days lost about 23% of its moisture—dropping from 14% to 11%. Since most homes are kept between 68°F and 72°F, it’s unlikely that flour stored under normal household conditions would lose a noticeable amount of moisture.

Because of the stable, moderate temperatures in most homes, both all-purpose and bread flour can be stored for up to 12 months—or even longer—without any meaningful loss in quality.

Flours with a higher bran content, such as whole wheat or rye, have a shorter shelf life—but not because of moisture loss. These flours contain more natural oils from the germ and bran, which makes them prone to going rancid well before they dry out.