Horse Cookies?

[RosaNera]

Hi all! I’m trying to continue my horse treat business and just can’t seem to figure out this recipe. I’ve been suggested to work with flour and a molasses-water blend, but, when it comes out of the oven, they’re dense and bend rather than crunch easily like i was hoping they would, and a longer bake time makes them rock hard. Suggestions?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi all! I’m trying to continue my horse treat business and just can’t seem to figure out this recipe. I’ve been suggested to work with flour and a molasses-water blend, but, when it comes out of the oven, they’re dense and bend rather than crunch easily like i was hoping they would, and a longer bake time makes them rock hard. Suggestions?

I don’t know of anyone who knows anything about horses that would feed that kind of garbage you’re making to their beloved horses.

PSSM is hereditary. It requires a low starch diet. Most owners don’t even know if their animal has PSSM until it ties up. My friend didn’t know until his horse had an life-threatening episode and the poor girl nearly died. And the vet bills were astronomical.

Who would deliberately feed processed flour to their animal anyway?

Tying-Up in Horses: Causes and Management

In this article, we'll discuss some of the specific causes of exertional rhabdomyolysis (ER) or tying-up, along with methods that can be used to prevent repeat episodes. of tying-up in horses. predisposed to recurrences.

thehorse.com

 

[RosaNera]

Excuse me for saying this, but that was astronomical rude. The flour is used in RATION as a binder with sticky substances. My customers are aware of the ingredients directly, and give me a list of what their horses sensitivities and restrictions are. These are TREATS, not constant feed. If you’re feeding treats constantly to your horses.. Maybe the treats aren’t the problem.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Rude? Oh please, you know nothing about the nutritional needs of animals. You make a garbage product of ingredients that are the by-product (read waste products) of refining sugar and wheat kernels. Molasses and flour are not naturally occurring. No animal, not even humans evolved to eat these products.

I took care of my friend’s horse in the two years before the episode. It was only after she was transferred to a training facility and put under daily workouts that she tied up. The only way to diagnose PSSM is with genetic testing. Which is very expensive. Until then she was not tested. So your customers I am sure have not had it done. So they don’t know if their horses have PSSM or not. After spending 3 weeks in the hospital, I once again took care of her. And believe me, she was padlocked, fed separately from the other horses, and did not even get so much as a baby carrot.

 

[RosaNera]

In the 2 years you “cared” for that horse, you probably made enough mistakes to fill a thesaurus. Very few things we feed horses now are naturally occurring. You think the supplements and the grain mixtures and everything else horses get are something you can go pick out of a garden? The apples we feed are engineered, the carrots we feed are engineered.

So no horse, anywhere, ever, should have a bit of sugar? By the same reasoning, no horses should go outside. They can break legs, kick eachother, etc. so no more turnout. Also by that logic, no horses should be FED, because they could colic. Good to know, resident horse master ^^

 

[RosaNera]

I’ll tell you now. Almost every cookie-shaped horse treat has flour in it, and molasses is very popular. So take your uninformed opinion, and keep it to yourself before you scare some kid into never feeding their horse a sugar cube again.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

In the 2 years you “cared” for that horse, you probably made enough mistakes to fill a thesaurus. Very few things we feed horses now are naturally occurring. You think the supplements and the grain mixtures and everything else horses get are something you can go pick out of a garden? The apples we feed are engineered, the carrots we feed are engineered.

So no horse, anywhere, ever, should have a bit of sugar? By the same reasoning, no horses should go outside. They can break legs, kick eachother, etc. so no more turnout. Also by that logic, no horses should be FED, because they could colic. Good to know, resident horse master ^^

Nope. These horses don’t eat grain and supplements The horses here are not fed that crap.

Quality oat and alfalfa only. And once a year in the spring they are taken to a specific open land, over 1000 acres where they are graze freely.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

In the 2 years you “cared” for that horse, you probably made enough mistakes to fill a thesaurus. Very few things we feed horses now are naturally occurring. You think the supplements and the grain mixtures and everything else horses get are something you can go pick out of a garden? The apples we feed are engineered, the carrots we feed are engineered.

So no horse, anywhere, ever, should have a bit of sugar? By the same reasoning, no horses should go outside. They can break legs, kick eachother, etc. so no more turnout. Also by that logic, no horses should be FED, because they could colic. Good to know, resident horse master ^^

A horse that is injured by accident is not the same an ignorant owner deliberately causing injury to a horse by deliberately feeding it sugar, processed flour, other other garbage that it is not meant to eat.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I’ll tell you now. Almost every cookie-shaped horse treat has flour in it, and molasses is very popular. So take your uninformed opinion, and keep it to yourself before you scare some kid into never feeding their horse a sugar cube again.

And every horse treat out there garbage should not be fed to a horse.



So get yourself educated about horse nutrition.

 

[AngelCakes]

Horses can and cant eat.
ALLERGY OR INTOLERANCE?

Here's some articles to study Norcal during your stay on here.
Now what do you think all treats are made out of? Water and grass? Well your wrong, Treats are filled many of things for health and a few unhealthy things, yes but shouldn't cause any issues unless that horse is allergic or sensitive to that ingredient.
Now on the fact of Beer, or any Soda. As Beer sounds crazy to be giving horses beer but it is used as a traditional treatment for anhidrosis.
A Beer for Our Horse
Now the subject of molasses, it's about half sugar, and the rest is water and minerals. Horse Sense
As horses has a feed intolerance, quote from "ALLERGY OR INTOLERANCE" "If a horse has a feed intolerance, the culprit is commonly molasses, barley or sometimes alfalfa, but other cereals can be implicated. Feeds that contain cereal by products can also cause a reaction.".
The way your saying this is no animal or human should ever have flour or molasses in their life..? So you, as a human refuse to eat Whole grain breads, crackers, Pasta and breakfast cereals? Yes overfeeding a horse or any animal with flour or anything to your concern can cause problems but that's not the product's maker fault, as you should be watching how much your animal takes in.

"The most common forms of molasses are made from either sugar cane or sugar beet juice which is boiled down to a syrup. Sugar crystals are extracted from the syrup, and the remaining dark liquid is molasses. Molasses can also be made from sorghum, pomegranate, carob, and dates"
Molasses

Blackstrap molasses contains vital vitamins and minerals, such as:

• iron. (Iron is a mineral that the body needs for growth and development.)
• calcium. (calcium serves a huge role in the structural integrity of the skeleton.)
• magnesium. (Functions include helping with muscle and nerve function, regulating blood pressure, and supporting the immune system)
• vitamin B6. (Vitamin B6 is involved in gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis, immune function Vitamin B6, Vitamin B6 supplementation was shown to significantly alter protein metabolism and increase the ratio of fore + hindleg muscle weight to body weight Vitamin B6 for Horses)
• selenium. (Selenium is a mineral that is essential for the proper functioning of your body. It plays a critical role in metabolism and thyroid function and helps protect your body from damage caused by oxidative stress.)

Also take into thought, HORSES ARE BUILT DIFFERANTLY. Just because your Morgan, Dutch Warmblood or whatever breed can eat these treats doesn't mean every horse can,

Now- Onto the flour.
Flour is a powder made by grinding raw grains, roots, beans, nuts, or seeds. A little bit of flour is okay, it's only in there to act as a binder so that the cookies don't fall apart.
Now dont quote me on Flour, as im not a expert with flour. As Rosa mentioned "Almost every cookie-shaped horse treat has flour in it"

From your lovely person, Who is studying genetics, Equine Study, and Large and Small animal care~

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Horses can and cant eat.
ALLERGY OR INTOLERANCE?

Here's some articles to study Norcal during your stay on here.
Now what do you think all treats are made out of? Water and grass? Well your wrong, Treats are filled many of things for health and a few unhealthy things, yes but shouldn't cause any issues unless that horse is allergic or sensitive to that ingredient.
Now on the fact of Beer, or any Soda. As Beer sounds crazy to be giving horses beer but it is used as a traditional treatment for anhidrosis.
A Beer for Our Horse
Now the subject of molasses, it's about half sugar, and the rest is water and minerals. Horse Sense
As horses has a feed intolerance, quote from "ALLERGY OR INTOLERANCE" "If a horse has a feed intolerance, the culprit is commonly molasses, barley or sometimes alfalfa, but other cereals can be implicated. Feeds that contain cereal by products can also cause a reaction.".
The way your saying this is no animal or human should ever have flour or molasses in their life..? So you, as a human refuse to eat Whole grain breads, crackers, Pasta and breakfast cereals? Yes overfeeding a horse or any animal with flour or anything to your concern can cause problems but that's not the product's maker fault, as you should be watching how much your animal takes in.

"The most common forms of molasses are made from either sugar cane or sugar beet juice which is boiled down to a syrup. Sugar crystals are extracted from the syrup, and the remaining dark liquid is molasses. Molasses can also be made from sorghum, pomegranate, carob, and dates"
Molasses

Blackstrap molasses contains vital vitamins and minerals, such as:

• iron. (Iron is a mineral that the body needs for growth and development.)
• calcium. (calcium serves a huge role in the structural integrity of the skeleton.)
• magnesium. (Functions include helping with muscle and nerve function, regulating blood pressure, and supporting the immune system)
• vitamin B6. (Vitamin B6 is involved in gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis, immune function Vitamin B6, Vitamin B6 supplementation was shown to significantly alter protein metabolism and increase the ratio of fore + hindleg muscle weight to body weight Vitamin B6 for Horses)
• selenium. (Selenium is a mineral that is essential for the proper functioning of your body. It plays a critical role in metabolism and thyroid function and helps protect your body from damage caused by oxidative stress.)

Also take into thought, HORSES ARE BUILT DIFFERANTLY. Just because your Morgan, Dutch Warmblood or whatever breed can eat these treats doesn't mean every horse can,

Now- Onto the flour.
Flour is a powder made by grinding raw grains, roots, beans, nuts, or seeds. A little bit of flour is okay, it's only in there to act as a binder so that the cookies don't fall apart.
Now dont quote me on Flour, as im not a expert with flour. As Rosa mentioned "Almost every cookie-shaped horse treat has flour in it"

From your lovely person, Who is studying genetics, Equine Study, and Large and Small animal care~

Well if you take some time to look at my posts here you would realize that I know quite a bit about baking science. That I have studied quite a bit of food and human science. That I don’t need anyone to tell me how flour and sugar is processed.

Animals and humans did not evolve to eat processed flour and sugar. I have taken university classes in biology, human biology, anatomy, chemistry, human chemistry.

I’ve also taken a lot of classes in baking, and the science of baking.

Nowhere in the literature have I seen anything that says humans and/or animals have evolve to eat processed sugar and flour. Or that it is nutritional and good for you.

And I have yet to find a vet that has instructed me to feed an animal processed sugar and flour.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

You’re trying to justify making a profit out of feeding animals garbage is just sad.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

And if you were actually studying animal care then you would know that what you are doing has a name: anthropomorphizing.

And you would know anthropomorphizing is in fact extremely harmful to animals.

And you would not stop treating horses like human children.

And you would stop feeding horses human children treats.

And you would do the moral and ethical thing and feed the horse only horse food .

 

[AngelCakes]

You did not listen one bit to what my reply said, I do not doubt you took classes and all, I respect your worry but I'm saying my worries. As my Highschool isn't teaching us every little thing about animal care. You haven't at all said anything related to my reply as you pull your replies out of your own ass, You never gave any quotes, information on articles, Or true facts in your replies to Rosa. Also as you said PSSM " The only way to diagnose PSSM is with genetic testing." and adding "PSSM is hereditary. It requires a low starch diet". The way your treating PSSM is that every single horse in this world has PSSM. I do not own horses or anything but I have studied them, so I'm not the one feeding them. Who said we treating horses like kids? You don't see every horse dressed up in a pretty pink sparkling dress and neither do any of us see that and since when HORSE TREATS for humans?? So your saying we should never treat our horses to a snack for good behavior or anything? instead give them plain boring oats or anything? Would a horse really like it's feed 90% of the time given to them as a treat. You sound like one of those Vegans that say riding horses is abuse and they should be free without humans, but yet you keep them in a pasture. That really sounds like they are free... Your saying we should never feed horses, Sugar cubes, Give them Salt licks, Carrots, Apples, Bananas, Grass, hay or etc, Instead we only let them eat Beet pulp, Oats, Flaxseed, Pellets, and other feeds that are boring in taste and probably don't give much nutrition?

 

[AngelCakes]

As well adding onto this, I never told you once how to feed your animal, treat it or how flour and sugar is processed. I'm just simply talking about my side.

 

[AngelCakes]

So what do you use when making food that call for flour? You don't use it?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

You did not listen one bit to what my reply said, I do not doubt you took classes and all, I respect your worry but I'm saying my worries. As my Highschool isn't teaching us every little thing about animal care. You haven't at all said anything related to my reply as you pull your replies out of your own ass, You never gave any quotes, information on articles, Or true facts in your replies to Rosa. Also as you said PSSM " The only way to diagnose PSSM is with genetic testing." and adding "PSSM is hereditary. It requires a low starch diet". The way your treating PSSM is that every single horse in this world has PSSM. I do not own horses or anything but I have studied them, so I'm not the one feeding them. Who said we treating horses like kids? You don't see every horse dressed up in a pretty pink sparkling dress and neither do any of us see that and since when HORSE TREATS for humans?? So your saying we should never treat our horses to a snack for good behavior or anything? instead give them plain boring oats or anything? Would a horse really like it's feed 90% of the time given to them as a treat. You sound like one of those Vegans that say riding horses is abuse and they should be free without humans, but yet you keep them in a pasture. That really sounds like they are free... Your saying we should never feed horses, Sugar cubes, Give them Salt licks, Carrots, Apples, Bananas, Grass, hay or etc, Instead we only let them eat Beet pulp, Oats, Flaxseed, Pellets, and other feeds that are boring in taste and probably don't give much nutrition?

it’s not just PSSM.

but feeding sugar and flour to a horse is just wrong.

feeding sugar and flour to any animal is wrong.

i’m not “pulling this out of my ass”

There was a horse that was brought here from King Ranch. if you don’t know King Ranch Google it.

The owner and I were discussing feeding. He was talking about feeding this horse among other things his kitchen scraps.

I told him it wasn’t healthy. Not only that that his horse wouldn’t even recognize what leftover vegetables or even a carrot was because reputable ranches don’t feed that kind of stuff to their animals.

and to prove this to him I took a bag of carrots out to the corral.

When the horses caught sight of me they all ran over to the fence. One by one I gave a piece of carrot to each one of the horses. And all of the horses that had been raised by people like you ate the carrot.


And then I offered a carrot to the King Ranch horse.

He sniffed at the carrot. He wouldn’t even take it into his mouth, and he turned and walked away.

Couple months after that I was talking with man who had recommended a few horses to a friend of mine. This man has spent his entire life on horses. These people deal with some of the most expensive showhorses. In the county. And he was chastising me for even feeding alfalfa because he says the protein is too high.

Projecting your emotional needs onto your animal is the worst thing that you can do. You’re making feeding decisions based on your emotional needs, not what is best for your horse.

 

[AngelCakes]

Also, I don't know why the horses there are raised by humans and all orphans, but a foal shouldn't be raised by a human because they need the time with their mother and learn from other horses. I don't know why your saying Horses raised by humans only take a carrot, but I'm pretty sure that horse that rejected it didn't take it because he didn't know what the fricking carrot was?

 

[AngelCakes]

Ma'am when did i ever mention our emotional needs, also where the heck did you even get that from? Here you go again, not paying attention to a single thing i say, really making me mad, that your not listening. You haven't once showed any scientific proof that this is bad for horses, where is that at may i ask? "When we digest sugar, enzymes in the small intestine break it down into glucose. This glucose is then released into the bloodstream, where it is transported to tissue cells in our muscles and organs and converted into energy." What does sugar turn into, I doubt your even looking links i post in this, Sugar turns to glucose and is converted to energy... Your saying horses shouldn't have energy, Sugar is a thing our body and animals need. There's sugar in fucking everything, even grass. So your horses shouldn't be eating grass EVER in their whole life, if I'm correct? You just gonna keep your horse locked up in a stall? "Non-structural carbohydrates, or NSC, are the simple sugars and starches present in horse feed ingredients. Simple sugars (such as glucose and fructose) and starches (simple sugars that are attached together as a chain) are readily digested and absorbed in the small intestine." Whats in horse feed

They aren't all bad!
"Carbohydrates—these sugars and starches—are the largest source of energy in a horse’s diet. They are named based on the number of sugar molecules chained together: monosaccharides, disaccharides, oligosaccharides, or polysaccharides (see Table 1). Monosaccharides, or simple sugars, are the basic carbohydrate unit on which all others are built."

Now for once, please listen to what I'm saying, Your the person who always wants to be right and have your way. I'm stressed out of how unprofessional you sound right now.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Ma'am when did i ever mention our emotional needs, also where the heck did you even get that from? Here you go again, not paying attention to a single thing i say, really making me mad, that your not listening. You haven't once showed any scientific proof that this is bad for horses, where is that at may i ask? "When we digest sugar, enzymes in the small intestine break it down into glucose. This glucose is then released into the bloodstream, where it is transported to tissue cells in our muscles and organs and converted into energy." What does sugar turn into, I doubt your even looking links i post in this, Sugar turns to glucose and is converted to energy... Your saying horses shouldn't have energy, Sugar is a thing our body and animals need. There's sugar in fucking everything, even grass. So your horses shouldn't be eating grass EVER in their whole life, if I'm correct? You just gonna keep your horse locked up in a stall? "Non-structural carbohydrates, or NSC, are the simple sugars and starches present in horse feed ingredients. Simple sugars (such as glucose and fructose) and starches (simple sugars that are attached together as a chain) are readily digested and absorbed in the small intestine." Whats in horse feed

They aren't all bad!
"Carbohydrates—these sugars and starches—are the largest source of energy in a horse’s diet. They are named based on the number of sugar molecules chained together: monosaccharides, disaccharides, oligosaccharides, or polysaccharides (see Table 1). Monosaccharides, or simple sugars, are the basic carbohydrate unit on which all others are built."

Now for once, please listen to what I'm saying, Your the person who always wants to be right and have your way. I'm stressed out of how unprofessional you sound right now.

no I am listening I’m just not responding because you can’t have that conversation with me.

A five minute Google search doesn’t tell you the actual science, you actually have to take a class in biology and chemistry to get the full lesson.

I took all those science classes in preparation for a career in the medical field. So I actually do have a pretty good understanding of the human body and its functions. I’ve studied human tissue under a microscope. Studied cellular activity. Metabolism is part of that.

And when an animal ingests pure processed sugar vs a whole plant fiber the way the body metabolizes it is different. You did a Google search and you got a dumbed down version of digestion. But you didn’t get the classroom version.

Just like I am a celiac so I can’t be a vegetarian anymore because celiac‘s have issues with iron absorption. Sure I can get iron from plant sources, but because the way the body metabolizes iron from plant vs meat I can’t derive enough iron from plant sources to meet my needs as a celiac. Celiac‘s become so anemic they end up hospitalized and require IV iron drips. So I have to consume meat in order to meet my iron needs.

Metabolism is very complex. You have a general idea of what happens in digestion, but not the more detailed facts of what occurs with specific foods.

=======

When you feed an animal “treats“ that’s an emotional human need that we have. It is not anything the animal needs.

That’s the human need being projected onto the animal.

Horses are in nature wild animals. There is an estimated 95,000 wild horses in the United States.

Nowhere in this landscape are the wild horses eating treats of molasses and processed flour. Nor are they eating supplements, pellets, or grains.

Treats of molasses and processed flour are projected on horses by humans who have this ridiculous notion that in feeding this this to their horse that they’re showing “love”.

Humans have emotional needs. And we seeks to have those needs meet in other things--both living and non-animate.

But we can do harm when we let our human emotional needs guide our decisions in the care of animals and the environment.

Animals don’t have the emotional needs that we have, yet we’re constantly projecting out our human emotional needs onto them. Some things like dressing our dogs and cats in human clothes might seem harmless. But when we start feeding animals processed human foods we’re taking it a step too far.

I don’t know how old you are, but there was an incident with a product called Greenie treats for dogs and cats were killing them. They were causing intestinal blocks. There’s still a risk, but they are still making them, and people are still buying them and feeding them to their animals. It’s insane.

My cat did not get treats.


Now I will say by instructions of the vet, when I had to administer shots everyday for a week to a horse, I gave her a scoop of grain to keep her calm. As the alpha mare, culling her from the herd highly agitated her. Where I had to administer the injection was still in the line of sight of the corral. So keeping her head down and distracted so I could safely inject her was important. I could risk her becoming agitated and fighting, and risk the needle breaking off in her muscle.

And when a horse kept spitting out take an antibiotic no matter how I tried to get her to swallow it or hid it in food, the vet told me to coat the pills in molasses so she couldn’t smell it. She had a pretty bad infection, so getting the antibiotics in her was critical to get the infection under control. When she couldn’t smell it, she finally ate it.