Making Chinese Whisked Sponge Cake for My Wedding

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So a little background, my fiancee is Chinese so we wanted to make our own whisked Chinese sponge as the wedding cake. However, I have a number of problems
  1. How can I improve this recipe: http://www.food.com/recipe/chinese-sponge-cake-baked-not-steamed-258578?mode=us&st=true&scaleto=10
  2. Will this cake keep ok for 48 hours (non-refrigerated in a 'naked' or semi-naked with royal icing scraped on/off)
  3. Will this cake be stable enough to have in three tiers (using dowels)
  4. Would like be just simpler if I used a classic Victoria sponge?
Any and all advice desperately needed.
 
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Re Q1, have you baked this recipe? If so was there a problem with it?
 
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I would NEVER use a recipe written in volume measurements. And a recipe on that scale has more potential to go askew based on one's measuring tools and personal approaches to measuring. With 80 eggs and 20 cups of flour the potential for the ratios to be off is way too high.

A measuring cup can be off by +20% depending on how one scoops flour into the cup.

Large eggs can vary significantly by individual eggs. The past couple of weeks I've baked a number of chiffon cakes. I use metric weight. I needed 210 grams of egg whites for each cake. I had eggs from a couple of different stores. One cake used 8 eggs whites; another 7 egg whites, another 6 egg whites all to get 210 grams of egg whites.

I recommend you find a good 9" sponge cake recipe developed in metric weight. Test and tweak it. Then scale it to the size cake you want for your wedding. Baker's percentages to scale properly are just another reason to love metric in baking,

It's not clear if you intent to make a naked cake, or just want to leave it with a crumb coat until you're ready to decorate it. But if it's naked, then keep a few things in mind.

1. Naked cakes dry out quickly as they have little buttercream. So a moist cake like a pound cake works best.

2. Sponge cakes by nature are dry. They require a simply syrup. But caution is needed as too much will create a soggy cake.

3. A naked cake needs to be sturdy because there's no buttercream to "glue" it together. Again, that's why pound cake is a good choice.

4. How the cake is stored really effects it quality. Freezing as soon as it's cool creates a moister cake. Storing in refrigerator causes a cake to dry out because refrigerators have dehumidifiers (evaporators) to control moisture.

5. Eggs are strengtheners and provide structure. But they also toughen a cake if out of balance. Sugar is a tenderizer. Too much sugar can counter the effects of the eggs. But the only way to analyze a recipe is to evaluate the ratios. This cake is in volume, so it's anyone's guess as to the ratios. It's impossible to tell if this cake has the ingredients necessary for solid structure.

6. To be honest, I Think you will fare better better if you find a recipe developed in metric weight. Doesn't matter if it's a Chinese sponge, Victorian spong, or Italian sponge. When it comes to baking success and consistency its all in the ratios. How much of what goes in the bowl by weight has an incredible impact on what you end up pulling out of the oven.

7. Sponge cakes take some practice. The absence of leavening means you have to whip those egg whites to perfection. There are very unforgiving if under/over beaten. When baking foam cakes, I like to add some of the sugar into the egg whites.

8. I also prefer to fold the egg whites in a couple of additions into the batter. This recipe has you fold the batter into the egg whites all at once. The weight of the batter poured into the egg whites deflates and destabilizes the egg whites. The picture isn't great, but from the looks of it, the texture doesn't look like an airy sponge cake.
 
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I would NEVER use a recipe written in volume measurements. And a recipe on that scale has more potential to go askew based on one's measuring tools and personal approaches to measuring. With 80 eggs and 20 cups of flour the potential for the ratios to be off is way too high.

A measuring cup can be off by +20% depending on how one scoops flour into the cup.

Large eggs can vary significantly by individual eggs. The past couple of weeks I've baked a number of chiffon cakes. I use metric weight. I needed 210 grams of egg whites for each cake. I had eggs from a couple of different stores. One cake used 8 eggs whites; another 7 egg whites, another 6 egg whites all to get 210 grams of egg whites.

I recommend you find a good 9" sponge cake recipe developed in metric weight. Test and tweak it. Then scale it to the size cake you want for your wedding. Baker's percentages to scale properly are just another reason to love metric in baking,

It's not clear if you intent to make a naked cake, or just want to leave it with a crumb coat until you're ready to decorate it. But if it's naked, then keep a few things in mind.

1. Naked cakes dry out quickly as they have little buttercream. So a moist cake like a pound cake works best.

2. Sponge cakes by nature are dry. They require a simply syrup. But caution is needed as too much will create a soggy cake.

3. A naked cake needs to be sturdy because there's no buttercream to "glue" it together. Again, that's why pound cake is a good choice.

4. How the cake is stored really effects it quality. Freezing as soon as it's cool creates a moister cake. Storing in refrigerator causes a cake to dry out because refrigerators have dehumidifiers (evaporators) to control moisture.

5. Eggs are strengtheners and provide structure. But they also toughen a cake if out of balance. Sugar is a tenderizer. Too much sugar can counter the effects of the eggs. But the only way to analyze a recipe is to evaluate the ratios. This cake is in volume, so it's anyone's guess as to the ratios. It's impossible to tell if this cake has the ingredients necessary for solid structure.

6. To be honest, I Think you will fare better better if you find a recipe developed in metric weight. Doesn't matter if it's a Chinese sponge, Victorian spong, or Italian sponge. When it comes to baking success and consistency its all in the ratios. How much of what goes in the bowl by weight has an incredible impact on what you end up pulling out of the oven.

7. Sponge cakes take some practice. The absence of leavening means you have to whip those egg whites to perfection. There are very unforgiving if under/over beaten. When baking foam cakes, I like to add some of the sugar into the egg whites.

8. I also prefer to fold the egg whites in a couple of additions into the batter. This recipe has you fold the batter into the egg whites all at once. The weight of the batter poured into the egg whites deflates and destabilizes the egg whites. The picture isn't great, but from the looks of it, the texture doesn't look like an airy sponge cake.

Wow! This is incredible! You are right and it would explain why my cake often collapses into a concave when cooling. If you can recommend a metric recipie that would be perfect for a naked wedding cake I would be very appreciative.
 
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Chris210,

Try the sponge cakes from either Rose Levy Beranbaum's Heavenly Cakes cookbook or the sponge cake recipe from the website gretchensbakery.com.

https://www.gretchensbakery.com/vanilla-sponge-cake-recipe/

Rose Levy Beranbaum cake is called the Rose Genoise. She adds some cornstarch to her recipe to aid rise. It is a very basic genoise, so it's a blank surface for you to embellish to your taste.

Some might also call Gretchen's sponge cake a genoise given the use of whole eggs. But the definition of sponge is really just a cake leavened with eggs. Genoise is the Italian version. What most people call a Victorian sponge is usually a version of a genoise. What many call a "sponge" is the French biscuit--the version of cake leavened with just egg whites. The culinary war between the Italians and French is one war no baker or cook should ever jump into the middle of. So I stick to the all-inclusive term "foam cakes" and leave it at that.

While I haven't used Gretchen's recipe, I like her work and refer bakers to her site for several reasons.


The ratios are good:
  • flour to sugar 1:1.43 this is in keeping with standards.
  • flour to egg 1:0.82 this is lower than American sponge which is a good thin
  • A "sponge" can be "eggy" in scent and flavor since the classic American ratio of flour to egg is 1:2.25. This recipe is in the ratio limits of both the French biscuit and Italian genoise, so it shouldn't be "eggy"
  • Whole eggs beaten to ribbon stage instead of preparing yolks and whites separately mitigates of sunken cake due to improperly beaten whites
  • She adds some baking powder as a failsafe
  • Using yolks makes for a moister sponge and adds strength to the structure of the cake
  • Mixing cake and all purpose flours produces a very nice soft crumb without creating too delicate a cake. I always blend cake flour and all purpose flour, except for chiffon cakes. When baking chiffon cake I always use cake flour.
Overall thoughts about her site:
  1. She has operated a commercial bakery, so she adheres to professional culinary standards. I've taken a lot classes over the years, including at CIA; her work reflects what is taught in culinary schools.
  2. She produces videos to demonstrate technique, which can be very helpful
  3. She monitors comments and doesn't hesitate to revise a recipe if bakers express problems reproducing her level of results.
  4. She offers a lot of variations on her recipes. This helps and encourages bakers to explore the possibilities and expand their repertoire.
  5. She addresses substitutions, what and when a substitution will or will not work.

========

If this is your first tiered cake, you may find Gretchen's post on making wedding cakes helpful.

https://www.gretchensbakery.com/how-to-make-a-wedding-cake/


===============

===============

TIPS I use for cakes:
  1. The brand of all purpose flour matters! All purpose Pillsbury, Gold Medal, and White Lily are more suited to cakes due to the lower protein content. These brands are between 9.6% and 10%. King Arthur All Purose Flour is too high in protein at 11.7%.
  2. For most cakes I use Central Milling Organic Beehive (all purpose, malted, 10% -10.5% protein, Hard Red Winter Wheat) blended with Central Milling Organic unbleached Pastry (10% protein, Soft White Wheat). The exception is chiffon; for chiffon I use Softasilk Bleached Cake Flour. Central Milling produces exceptionally flour. They supply flours for some of the nation's top bakeries including Tartine and Josey Baker. They sell to home bakers. They repackage their flours for the home baker in 5 pound bags and distribute through Keith Guisto Bakery Supply. https://centralmilling.com
  3. Sugar really matters--and I do mean it matters. Cane sugar is the only sugar I use. Ever. I won't even buy sugar that isn't expressly labeled CANE sugar. Beet sugar does NOT bake the same as cane sugar. I don't care what the beet sugar association says about their product being indistinguishable from cane sugar. It may be fine for other applications, but not for baking. Beet sugar does not caramelize like cane sugar. So it won't produce the color and delicious caramel notes that you get from cane sugar. The differences are more obvious in beet brown sugar. The molasses from beet sugar is so inferior, none of it is sold for human consumption. Instead, it's sold to animal feed producers. So that right there is indication to how inferior beet sugar is to cane sugar. And have you noticed that you have never seen a package of sugar with the bold designation of Beet sugar on it? There's a reason for that. Beet sugar is all GMO. Aside from differences in performance, I simply don't want to use a GMO products.
  4. Bake cakes at 325. I find 350 to be too hot for cake. I've baked cakes at 325 for years.
  5. Uncoated, natural metal or aluminum cake pans are best. Non-stick, anodized aluminum (Fat Daddio) produce horrible cakes. Such pans conduct way too much heat for cakes. They produce an overly browned crust. So the cake is tough and chewy. It's also very unsightly--that ugly brown crust line ruins the look of a sliced cake. I've been in a lot of commercial kitchens over the years and I've never seen or used any thing other than uncoated aluminum or metal. Not even anodized aluminum. I use Chicago Metallic Commercial II uncoated pans. But they are getting scare as demand for non-stick grows. I noticed a Nordic Wear uncoated natural aluminum cake pan in the store recently. Haven't tried it, but intend to buy one and test it. It looks promising.
  6. Baking cloth strips. Whenever I use a round cake pan I use Wilton baking strips--always without fail. Wilton baking strips are probably the only Wilton product that I'd like.
  7. Speaking of Wilton--they are terrible products. Aside from the baking strips, there's nothing they make that I like. Tools are a critical component to successful baking. And there's a slew of superior tools out there--many of which are cheaper in cost than Wilton.
  8. Line cake pan with parchment circle
  9. Use baker's grease on sides. Whisk until smooth equal parts by weight of shortening, oil, flour. Apply a very light coat with pastry brush.
  10. Simple syrups not only add moisture to a cake, but enhances flavors. I use a 1:1 ratio of sugar to liquid. For the liquid, I prefer to make my simple syrups with a combination of water and fresh juice. Depending on the sweetness of the juice, I will use anywhere from 100% juice to a blend of 75% juice to 25% water. After it cools in the pan I pour into a squeeze bottle and stored in the refrigerator until needed. The squeeze bottle makes for very easy application and storage. Any leftover is used to sweeten homemade ice tea or aqua fresca
  11. Do not cool the sponge cake in the pan. The exception is Angel food and chiffon cake which are cooled upside down in the pan. All other sponge cakes should be removed from the pan right out of the oven. If left in the pan, the residual moisture will cause the cake to deflate. Run a thin blade cake decorating spatula between the cake and pan, pressing the spatula against the pan, not the cake. Invert cake on to a flat surface like a plate or cookie sheet. Then invert again onto the cooling rack so it's top up. I like to elevate my cooling rack for better air circulation. I place drinking glasses on under the rack on the four corners to elevate. Elevating the rack is very important for chiffon or angel food cakes cooled in the pan.
 
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Sorry for my newness here, but I have loved making Chinese sponge cake (also called "Gai Don Go") for quite some time and have actually been working with using this same recipe (not in the same quantity).
But the reason I stumbled across this was because I was looking into checking what else I might be able to do with sponges.

So with this recipe in mind I actually substituted a bit and played around with it.
To the measurements of a regular 8" round which yields approximately 2 cakes in my working with the recipe here's the formula.

2 cups softasilk brand cake flour (though I have been just fine working with gold medal all purpose flour)
1.5 cups sugar (in the directions I will explain about how to work with this, also I have been using C&H bakers sugar)
0.5 cups oil (canola or coconut will work well)
0.75 teaspoons cream of tartar
1 Cup water
8 eggs separated
0.75 teaspoon vanilla extract (I've used almond, vanilla, and lemon extracts with all the same result. If there's a flavor profile preferred and there's an extract, you can use that.

Okay so the directions in your cake and mine are as followed. There will be the directions stated from the recipe as stated on the site, and then my own modifications and excerpts.:

Heat water and dissolved sugar. Let cool.
Heat water at low heat with half the sugar. So in this case the 0.75 cups. Of course letting the liquid cool.

Mix yolk into sugar water.
This stays the same.

Slowly add flour into the mixture.
Since I'm working with all purpose flour, I sift it twice before slowly adding it.
With the original softasilk flour, I would sift once to be safe of any clumping

Blend in oil and extract.
For here I only do the oil.

In a large bowl, beat egg whites until peaks are stiff. Add cream of tartar.
Note: in your quantity, you would need to have an industrial size mixer at hand and a very large bowl.
But in my smaller version, I have been using a glass bowl that holds just a bit over 2 quarts. With barely enough room to work with after we combine the whole thing together.
So I suggest a 4 quart bowl to be safe with above recipe.
Back to my modification.
So I start by getting the egg whites slightly frothy. Then add the extract of choice and the cream of tartar. Then work my way into soft peaks. At this point, I slowly incorporate the remaining sugar, while whisking away violently by hand (for ease a hand mixer would be appropriate) right up until stiff peaks.

Fold batter from above into egg whites.
Here's where it gets a little problematic. As above, suggestions say to incorporate the fold in layers as to not let the whites break down. Don't worry, the first time I did this recipe to the tee, and it came out alright; but as stated it starts to deflate the egg whites when you do it all at once, and it makes the cake slightly dense.
So here are my calculated risky folding when I got acclimated. I would take about a third of the egg white fluff, with a spatula, and fold it in using a whisk. Once that got incorporated, I would take half the remaining white and then i would do the same again until it was incorporated. At this point the batter starts to turn from the yellow caramelized color to more of a translucent cloud.
Then I would fold the remaining last bit of whites into the batter using a rubber spatula. Turning our cake mixture into this gigantic cloud in the bowl.

Pour combined batter into an UNGREASED aluminum cake pan (do NOT use a non-stick pan!).
In my case of using an 8" round, I am using a dark stainless steel pan, in which our now super fluffy cake batter would go into.
I have come to find that this recipe on my scale fills the pan (goes to about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the pan), as well as 12 cupcake tin pockets.

Bake at 350 degrees for 45-60 minutes until done (when toothpick comes out clean).
This is almost the last step. But from just throwing it in the oven and letting the cake bake just as is, will create big pockets of air, which will deform the cake (which I have learned in my past.)
So as to before this step is thought of. I take a toothpick, and poke the middle of the cake all the way down to the bottom, and slowly make circular motions throughout the batter in the pan, until every inch is covered. I tend to take a good two minutes to thoroughly get any and all of the big pockets out of the cake, thus creating a bunch of smaller bubbles throughout. I really think of the sponge cake as a Japanese cheesecake at this point.

So onto putting it in the oven. I do suggest getting a baking casserole dish that our cake pan can fit in, and filling it with about a centimeter of water. Yay, Cake bath! Then letting it bake in such a manner like a cheesecake.

It does take about 40 to 55 minutes to bake in this case. If you have an oven with the interior lighting and peering window, I suggest at the 35 minute mark, keeping an eye on the cake. You will notice the cake does go over the top of the pan, but no worries, just means the last step of cooling upside down does not work. But at the time the top stars becoming a nice golden brown around the edge, is the time to check it with a toothpick.
I have attached a picture of my cake actually for how it is after it has come out of the oven and at the point of having a clean toothpick. (For this one, I have used a lemon extract, and then had topped it with a lemon flavored 7-minute icing)

So now onto cooling the cake. Of course looking at the cake bulging out of the top, there is not a simple way to cool it upside down. So I left it upright for about a half an hour, on the cooling rack. Once it was still warm, but not too hot to handle, using a rubber spatula, I gently slide it between the cake and pan, to separate the edge, and due to the flexibility of the spatula, curve it slightly underneath, to sort of lift the bottom edge. Once I get the cake in a position of being able to remove the cake. Take wax paper to cover the top of the cake, and a solid surface to invert the pan for removal. Since we had separated the edges, it should come out nice and easy.
After this is done we can move it back onto the cooling rack with the wax paper to protect the top of the cake, cool I g it upside down like such, or even right side up cooling. It should take about 2 to 3 hours to cool the rest of the way before you top it.

On a side note the cupcake tin takes about 20 to 30 minutes until it comes to the same consistency, of baking with the cake bath.

Sorry I forgot to upload the picture of my cake cooling upside down.

But now I digress in my thought process. But in my humble experience with the literal same cake recipe, and modifications of my own self improvement on it. I suggest to stick to small batch as the recipe modified above, with however many tapered ( 8",9",10", or however sized you would care for) round pans.
For stability in transport it should need a few dowels involved, otherwise the cake is decently stable in its own, due to the bottom being slightly glutinous as a steamed cake.

And ways to ensure maximum quality of the overall cake is to plan accordingly. Always try and stick to a single supplier and brand for eggs, to ensure you are not just going into a potluck of different eggs from different brands and such, but plan for how many times you need to make the small batch, and get the number of eggs, plus some, just in case of egg separation a yolk explodes on you.
Make sure all ingredients are not past their expiration.
If you decide to use organics, go all organic or nothing organic. Or it will just not be properly organic.

Not quite sure of a naked 48 hours to have sitting around. But if you have a big enough cool storage unit/walk in cooler, as long as you take it out about an hour before icing it.

Also, my own recommendations for this style cake would be slicing fresh fruits (strawberries, kiwi, tangerines, etc...) for decor, and giving a nice light flavor.

Happy Baking!
 

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Pardon my jumping in here as well, but what an informative thread so far!

I love the light-as-air cake rolls from the Asian bakeries I've visited, and have been experimenting with them. I haven't used the same style cake to make a layer cake with icing and decorations, and I'm not sure how well it would support the weight. http://www.writing-temptations.net/vanilla-swiss-roll/ I made this into chocolate by substituting some cocoa powder for some of the flour. I used almond extract instead of vanilla and put a little amaretto into the whipped cream filling. Next up, I think, banana. :)
 

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