Cookie recipe with canola oil?

[John Dough]

I've looked at quite a few different recipes, and read guides about the effects various ingredients have on cookies. However, rather than wasting ingredients by continuing to do experiments, I figured I should just ask about it first.

Basically, I want to make cookies with canola oil rather than butter, mainly for convenience, and the the lower cost. Does anybody know of any recipes for cookies that don't result in a no-spread, over-risen cake-like texture? So far, my best guesses are;

- Don't use baking powder alone. Use baking powder and baking soda, or just baking soda alone.
- White sugar = crispier. Brown sugar seems to make the cookie softer.
- Corn starch = chewier? Not sure on this one.
- Use oats?

I'd also prefer a cookie that isn't super high in sugar, but I'm guessing that's difficult if you don't want a cake-like texture. Another question mark for me are the eggs, given that existing tests are generally done with standard cookies.

Has anybody gone down this road before and come back with a good cookie?

 

[ChesterV]

First off....LOVE THE NAME!!!!
"John Dough"! What a hoot!

If you look at my post on oils and butters, you will see that Canola oil is a light oil and should be ok for making cookies. The main difference between butter and oil, is the oil has no dairy in it. Yes, there are other differences, but thats the main one.

If you don't want "puffy" or cake risen type cookies, then either cut back on, or cut out the baking soda/powder.

There are lots of cookies out there that are not high in sugar, so using oat flour isn't the only option.
There are a lot of old European "shortbread" recipes that work as cookies, that have very little sugar or sweetener in them.

I like my cookies like I like my chocolate....with just enough sugar to take out the bitterness of the ingredients. I like to taste the actual product without tasting anything but sugar.

If you have experimented over the years, then you also know you can substitute the sugar with other things, as well as cut down on the sugar that is used.

If you want more gourmet style cookies, you can use specialty oils that also give it flavor as well as boost the sweetness (so you use less sugar)......Pecan oil and Coconut oil are both good for this.

If you don't want eggs in cookies, there are substitutes. Depending on what your taste is, what it is you are looking for, and what kind of cookie you are making, will depend on what substitutes are more usable for your recipe.

 

[John Dough]

@Chester: Thanks for the response! To clarify some things;

By oats, I mean quick oats, or old fashioned rolled oats. When it comes to flour, some guides suggest bread flour so I may try that.

And about the eggs, it's more a matter of how many eggs, since different amounts yield different textures. The problem is that existing tests online are done with high sugar, butter-based cookies, and so the results may not translate well. For example, "yeilds a chewy cookie" may just mean "makes it even more cake-like" when the cookie isn't already crispy to begin with. I may be better off with less, or no eggs.

Taking a traditional chocolate cookie and swapping the butter for oil seems to yeild less spread, and loses the element of creaming of the sugar, and reducing the sugar in such a recipe makes it less crispy, resulting in the cake like texture (or so I think).

As for shortbread, after a quick look it seems they all rely on a lot of butter, and seem pretty high in sugar. Are there any specific recipes you're thinking of?

Basically, my end goal is simply to have a good "base" recipe to work with, that I can use to make different kinds of cookies. Something that can be crunchy or chewy, with some modifications.

My take away at the moment is that results are probably going to be found by experimenting with the amount of baking soda and eggs, but that the result will never be "perfect" as that's simply the compromise I'll have to make when reducing sugar and fat in a recipe.

 

[ChesterV]

A butter cookie or sugar cookie basic recipe is good for these kinds of alterations.

But to get the results you want, it incorporates everything you do, not just changing the recipe to fit your needs. You also have to adjust the baking time, the heat, the mixture method, etc....

It's sounds like a lot, but it's not. For me, it's all been "learn as you go", I've never had anyone teach me. I've baked via mass production in bakeries, and I've baked at home in small quantities. Both of those turn out different also.

For oats, rolled, ground or otherwise....they absorb a lot of liquid while baking. If you want soft oat cookies, then you have to add something else like eggs, to help keep them soft.

Cookies can be made without eggs. If you are like me, and like flat, "hard" cookies, then I leave out the eggs and bake the cookies till they are a specific shade of tan or brown.

Eggs work like a raising agent. Leave them out, your cookies will not get that rise. Use eggs, your cookies might turn out cake like if too many are used.

Eggs are also used as a binding ingredient. Too many eggs you will not get "spread" you will get "rise". If you require a binding ingredient but don't want rise, then use less egg.

Oil based cookies give less spread, because they don't contain the dairy part, like butter does.
Oils are oils, period. Dairy butter has oils, water, lactose, and other things that don't make it a 100% oil ingredient. Because of this, you get "spread" by using dairy butters. Oils don't have water or other ingredients in them.

Then again, it can be "all in how its baked".

If I want some "soft" sugar cookies, I will bake them with less heat and less time. I bake them just till the edges turn a bit beige and the middle of the cookie just barely looks "wet". This makes for a firm edge, but a soft middle.

If I want some "hard" sugar cookies, then I will bake them at the required heat, but until they completely start to turn light brown on top, possibly dark brown around the cookie edge where it meets the pan. This usually results in a crunchy cookie.....and I use this type for decorating.

Of course this is after years of me baking and discovering what works this way and how it works if I change that or bake it this way.

The best "base" cookies I have ever found are butter cookies and shortbread cookies, like sugar cookies, gingerbread, and anything that is really firm like that.

Adding more oil or butter can make them softer. Adding eggs will make them rise more. Adding baking powder, baking soda, eggs, and a tiny bit of milk or water can make them cake like.
And the same goes for the baking methods.

The method for baking cookies that I've come to use over the years.....
If I want it "softer" then I bake at a lower temp and bake for a longer period of time...depending on the recipe I am using.
If I want it crunchy or "hard" then I bake at regular temp and until they turn the correct color...which is what tells me that they are done.

Hope that helps.



Also, if you want cookies to be a specific size, you can make the "hard" dough cookies and just use a cookie press for your desired size.

They also sell them without designs on them...

 

[John Dough]

@Chester: Thanks for the response. I'm also a very learn as you go kind of person when it comes to baking. For me, it's more about learning how things work, as opposed to looking at specific recipes, which act more as a point of reference.

I actually tried making some cookies again yesterday in another test, and I came to a similar conclusion about adding eggs. That is, that for the kind of cookie I want I don't want very many. Luckily for me I use carton egg whites, so it's a little easier to use smaller amounts.

I'll have to remember to test lower temperatures next time I do a test. I tried taking cookies out at different times, but I should also do the same with a lower temperature.

 

[ChesterV]

Using a lower temperature means the cookie won't bake as fast, but will be able to heat up enough to keep all ingredients from becoming too gooey and falling apart when removing from the cookie sheet/pan.

Once again, I've learned over the years....it's all trial and error.

Once you get your recipe perfected, then you can work on perfecting the right bake. For me, as I said, I've learned to know what color to look for on the cookie, depending on what cookie format it is I'm wanting.

I've always been very adaptable when looking at or using recipes. There have been very few times in my life I have looked at a recipe and used it "as is". I've always used ALL recipes as my "base" recipe and then format it before hand, for the taste, look, or presentation I want.


If you are inclined to do something like this......find you some "guinea pigs". I have some friends who are my baking "guinea pigs". So when I want to try something I've never done before, I bake a batch, loaf, or pan full and give it to them. They let me know what they think, and I adjust the recipe the next time I make some.

If you have any friends, neighbors, family, or co-workers you can trust a great deal to be blunt with your baking experiments, then you might try that out.


If your cookies turn out where you can't eat them, you might consider re-purposing them....

https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/dont-throw-that-away.3238/

 

[John Dough]

Tried again today and got my best results to this point. The recipe so far is;

1 Cup bread flour
1/4 cup brown sugar (without the brown sugar the baking soda makes it bitter)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp baking soda
1 tsp vanilla
chocolate chips (however many you want)

1/3 canola oil
2 tbs egg white (from a carton)

Using one bowl, I mixed together the sugar, salt, baking soda, vanilla, oil, and eggs (Guess this would be the equivalent of creaming, but it probably doesn't make a difference). Then mixed the flour, and the chocolate chips shortly after. The cookies don't spread much, so you have to flatten them yourself, either with a fork or by hand.

Baked at anywhere from 350-375, until slightly brown.

Probably doesn't look like much to most people, but it's sad how many times I've tried to get cookies to work with canola oil and failed. I think the biggest factors were to use less egg, and to use baking soda instead of baking powder. At least for me, this will work as a sort of template recipe. I may try to see if I can reduce the fat any further, in particular.

The experienced among you may be shaking your heads at something, so let me know if there's anything you think I should try.