Need Urgent Help with Doughnut Making

[LamsMekk]

Hello!

This is my first time posting here I’ve just joined.

I have to make some doughnuts for someone to collect (outside a closed front door) by Monday. Unfortunately I’ve had a few issues.

Doughnuts aren’t proving well the second time, and when frying they’re inflating and ending up with huge empty pocked of air inside which just looks and tastes weird.
Also, they’re browning too much on the outside.

I do add extraflour when kneading as I knead by hand and the dough is very sticky.

Finally, the dough is shrinking when I use the cookie cutter!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks I advance!

 

[retired baker]

Hello!

This is my first time posting here I’ve just joined.

I have to make some doughnuts for someone to collect (outside a closed front door) by Monday. Unfortunately I’ve had a few issues.

Doughnuts aren’t proving well the second time, and when frying they’re inflating and ending up with huge empty pocked of air inside which just looks and tastes weird.
Also, they’re browning too much on the outside.

I do add extraflour when kneading as I knead by hand and the dough is very sticky.

Finally, the dough is shrinking when I use the cookie cutter!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks I advance!

oil is too hot . try 350f.
the air pocket probably because they weren't ready to be fried or the yeast was burned out already.
So the first proof was probably too long.
Try using barely warm water if you used hot water the first time, the idea is to slow the process down .
after rolling the dough out let it relax a minute before cutting if it shrinks.
Cover with plastic and let proof, they can take 1 hour to proof , maybe less.

 

[LamsMekk]

Thanks so much for your response!
will Letting the douh rest after rolling help the Air bubbles too?
Also, how do I know when I’m over kneading? Thanks

 

[LamsMekk]

oil is too hot . try 350f.
the air pocket probably because they weren't ready to be fried or the yeast was burned out already.
So the first proof was probably too long.
Try using barely warm water if you used hot water the first time, the idea is to slow the process down .
after rolling the dough out let it relax a minute before cutting if it shrinks.
Cover with plastic and let proof, they can take 1 hour to proof , maybe less.

sorry do you mean second proof can take an hour also?

 

[retired baker]

Thanks so much for your response!
will Letting the douh rest after rolling help the Air bubbles too?
Also, how do I know when I’m over kneading? Thanks

When your arms fall off, its probably over kneaded. If its a cogent dough, without lumps and elastic, you're good.

The bubbles during cooking are because it wasn't ready to go in the oil . (not proofed enough)
Let it rise as long as it takes, cover with plastic to keep drafts off it.

If it will not rise take a small chunk of dough the size of your thumb and drop it in a cup of hot tap water.
replace water with more hot tap water after 10 minutes.
After 15 minutes it should rise to the surface if its still alive.
If it flattens out on the bottom of the cup its dead.
If , on the other hand, it pops to the surface immediately its over proofed. That happens if you over mix and burn the yeast.
This is how we prove a questionable dough in bake shops.

If it proves good but the dough still isn't rising then the kitchen is too cold, put it somewhere warmer .

 

[retired baker]

sorry do you mean second proof can take an hour also?

With quick yeast you don't get a secong full rise, you proof it once and use it.
The first rise might only take 20 minutes.

Let rise in a oiled bowl first time cover with plastic or dry cloth, soon as it nearly doubled tip it out and start to flatten it out, even it out with a rolling pin and see if you can cut it, if it shrinks let it relax 5 minutes and try again.
You will find it relaxes very quickly if left along a few minutes.

 

[LamsMekk]

With quick yeast you don't get a secong full rise, you proof it once and use it.
The first rise might only take 20 minutes.

Let rise in a oiled bowl first time cover with plastic or dry cloth, soon as it nearly doubled tip it out and start to flatten it out, even it out with a rolling pin and see if you can cut it, if it shrinks let it relax 5 minutes and try again.
You will find it relaxes very quickly if left along a few minutes.

Amazing thanks! You’re definitely a professional!

I’m using fresh yeast as There is absolutely no fast action yeast is the shops.
I find it proofs well the first time but second proofing they puff slightly but not enough by 40 mins later.
It’s very frustrating!!!

 

[retired baker]

Well I'm definitely retired now.

Fresh yeast , ok you absolutely must use cold cold water.
Did you use warm water ? thats a problem.
I worked at dunkin donuts in 1969 and we used ice water in summer to slow it down.

 

[LamsMekk]

What cold water!!! I’ve been using warm not lukewarm and letting it sit in a warm bathroom (with no toilet in there lol)

ah you worked at dunken doughnuts! Cool!

is it the case that doughnut dough shouldn’t be kneaded as much as bread dough?
Many thanks!!

 

[LamsMekk]

How long would the proofing take with the cold cold water?

 

[retired baker]

How long would the proofing take with the cold cold water?

First rise , fresh yeast, cold water , anywhere from 45 minutes to 90 minutes.
Depends on weather, humidity and batch size.
Second rise is usually half the time of the first. Once it gets going it increases exponentially.
I never baked by the clock, never used a timer , I do now because I watch tv whilst waiting for dough to rise.

 

[retired baker]

What cold water!!! I’ve been using warm not lukewarm and letting it sit in a warm bathroom (with no toilet in there lol)

ah you worked at dunken doughnuts! Cool!

is it the case that doughnut dough shouldn’t be kneaded as much as bread dough?
Many thanks!!

Theres yer problem, the yeast was toast before it got to the portion stage.

Yeast raised should be fully developed so the dough picks up from the bowl.
With a soft dough I would dissolve the yeast in cold water or milk.
I find fresh yeast works faster than dry yeast even though dry yeast uses warm water.
The finished dough should be around 80F.
The bigger the batch the faster it will proof due to bulk fermentation time. (BFT).

 

[LamsMekk]

Many thanks for your amazing advice! Great help

 

[DoughnutSlinger]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I’m having a similar issue with my doughnuts. They have an air bubble under the surface of the doughnut on the side that hits the oil first.

My dough is brioche style, with a cold ~22 hour first fermentation. We mix it the day before, make it into loaves. And park it in the fridge until the next morning. We then roll it and cut it cold, and proof it in a proofer on a fry screen until it looks ready (about an hour).

The air bubble is from a second rise (proof) being too short? Underproofing leads to the air bubble? It doesn’t seem like we’re under proofing. Can over proofing lead to the same problem?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I’m having a similar issue with my doughnuts. They have an air bubble under the surface of the doughnut on the side that hits the oil first.

My dough is brioche style, with a cold ~22 hour first fermentation. We mix it the day before, make it into loaves. And park it in the fridge until the next morning. We then roll it and cut it cold, and proof it in a proofer on a fry screen until it looks ready (about an hour).

The air bubble is from a second rise (proof) being too short? Underproofing leads to the air bubble? It doesn’t seem like we’re under proofing. Can over proofing lead to the same problem?

Under-proofed and the temperature of the dough is too cold to fry. After 22 hrs in the refrigerator the yeast dormant. And hour isn’t enough time for the yeast and dough to warm sufficiently. Just because it looks ready doesn’t mean it is.

 

[DoughnutSlinger]

That seems to be the consensus. I wonder if I should sacrifice one doughnut and get an internal temp of the dough when we think it’s ready.

We’ll modify tomorrow and see if it helps. Thank you!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

That seems to be the consensus. I wonder if I should sacrifice one doughnut and get an internal temp of the dough when we think it’s ready.

We’ll modify tomorrow and see if it helps. Thank you!

Right now you are losing batches of donuts to blistering. I thing sacrificing one donut is a small sacrifice

 

[DoughnutSlinger]

To update:
I measured the internal temp of one of the doughnuts that we were about to fry. It was 84F. Seems okay?

We’ve extended the proof slightly and I think we’re on the right track. I wonder though if there’s something off in our whole fermentation process that could be causing this?

We mix the dough about 24 hours before we fry it. We mix the all of the dry and wet ingredients together (except the butter) until it forms a dough, we develop the gluten a bit and then incorporate the butter piece by piece. Once the dough cleans up the bowl, we stop the mixing.

DDT is 75-77F.

After mixing, we divide the dough into ~3kg loaves, put them on sheet pans, wrap in plastic, then put them into the fridge until the next morning.

The next morning, we put the loaves through the sheeter, let them rest in the fridge for 30 minutes, then cut the doughnuts. The cut doughnuts go onto fry screens and into the proofer for about an hour. We set a timer for 45 minutes, and start checking the doughnuts. We don’t go strictly by time, but more so by look.

We take them out of the proofer for a couple of minutes to “dry”, then fry the doughnuts.

Are we making any errors in the fermentation? Should the dough “bulk” ferment at room temp before we shape it into loaves and park it in the fridge?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

To update:
I measured the internal temp of one of the doughnuts that we were about to fry. It was 84F. Seems okay?

We’ve extended the proof slightly and I think we’re on the right track. I wonder though if there’s something off in our whole fermentation process that could be causing this?

We mix the dough about 24 hours before we fry it. We mix the all of the dry and wet ingredients together (except the butter) until it forms a dough, we develop the gluten a bit and then incorporate the butter piece by piece. Once the dough cleans up the bowl, we stop the mixing.

DDT is 75-77F.

After mixing, we divide the dough into ~3kg loaves, put them on sheet pans, wrap in plastic, then put them into the fridge until the next morning.

The next morning, we put the loaves through the sheeter, let them rest in the fridge for 30 minutes, then cut the doughnuts. The cut doughnuts go onto fry screens and into the proofer for about an hour. We set a timer for 45 minutes, and start checking the doughnuts. We don’t go strictly by time, but more so by look.

We take them out of the proofer for a couple of minutes to “dry”, then fry the doughnuts.

Are we making any errors in the fermentation? Should the dough “bulk” ferment at room temp before we shape it into loaves and park it in the fridge?

84°F seems high. Maybe reduce the temperature in your proofer. Maybe you are going into the oil too hot. See if you can get your doughnut temperature down several degrees.

 

[DoughnutSlinger]

84°F seems high. Maybe reduce the temperature in your proofer. Maybe you are going into the oil too hot. See if you can get your doughnut temperature down several degrees.

What’s the ideal internal temp for a fully proofed doughnut?