Grandma's Polish Sweet Bread

[Norcalbaker59]

Regarding metrics:,Don't worry about the metric measures. Because I bake in metric, I think in metric when dealing with ingredients. But whenever I convert a recipe for anyone I always convert into metric, US units, and volume (measuring cups). I picked 500 grams of flour per loaf because it translates into 4 cups of flour.

Aside from listing both volume measurements and weight measurements, I will explain how to fill the measuring cup to ensure the volume of flour is close to the weight. A measuring cup can hold between 120 grams/ 4 1/4 ounces up to 145 grams/ 5 ounces depending on how it's filled.

Regarding mixer: with a good stand mixer you can complete the entire mixing and kneading of the dough in it.

A hand mixer unfortunately cannot handle bread dough. It all comes down to the power of the motor. The thick dough creates an enormous amount of resistance against the rotation of the beaters. A hand mixer would be stopped in its tracks by bread dough.

This recipe is a high hydration dough, meaning there is a high percentage of liquid to flour. That means it's going to be a very sticky dough. The stickier the dough, the more resistance against the beaters. So this recipe is not going to be easy on any home mixer.

If this were a cake recipe, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a hand mixer. But a sticky dough like this one requires some muscle in a mixer. If you truly think you want to buy a mixer, I'd recommend you consider a refurbished KitchenAid directly from KitchenAid.


KitchenAid outlet:

https://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/mor...rbished-2/outlet-and-refurbished-3/102020231/


About factory refurbished KitchenAids


https://www.kitchenaid.com/customer-service/additional-information/


When I scale your recipe, I'll give you directions on how to mix and knead the dough by both machine and hand. Given the high hydration rate you probably wouldn't actually be kneading it in the traditional way. I'll test it to see how sticky it is. I think a stretch and fold might be the best way to handle it by hand.


Regarding cooking fails: cooking and baking take practice. I've been baking nearly 20 years and I still have fails despite more than just a basic understanding of baking science. Baking usually takes several tries and adjustments to get just right. There are so many factors that come into play. The brand of flour, the type of sugar, the humidity or lack thereof, the calibration of your oven, the material your bakeware is made. Recipes are guides. Like with your grandmother's pickles, it took several tries to get it the way you wanted them.

I always say failure is the best teacher. Failure always makes me sit down and review everything I did to get a better understanding of how to reach success. Another thing I do when I'm still working the kinks out of the recipe is keep notes while I bake. I detail everything I do as I go through the process. Knowing what I did helps me figure out what to do next time.

 

[Jean S.]

Regarding metrics:,Don't worry about the metric measures. Because I bake in metric, I think in metric when dealing with ingredients. But whenever I convert a recipe for anyone I always convert into metric, US units, and volume (measuring cups). I picked 500 grams of flour per loaf because it translates into 4 cups of flour.

Aside from listing both volume measurements and weight measurements, I will explain how to fill the measuring cup to ensure the volume of flour is close to the weight. A measuring cup can hold between 120 grams/ 4 1/4 ounces up to 145 grams/ 5 ounces depending on how it's filled.

Regarding mixer: with a good stand mixer you can complete the entire mixing and kneading of the dough in it.

A hand mixer unfortunately cannot handle bread dough. It all comes down to the power of the motor. The thick dough creates an enormous amount of resistance against the rotation of the beaters. A hand mixer would be stopped in its tracks by bread dough.

This recipe is a high hydration dough, meaning there is a high percentage of liquid to flour. That means it's going to be a very sticky dough. The stickier the dough, the more resistance against the beaters. So this recipe is not going to be easy on any home mixer.

If this were a cake recipe, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a hand mixer. But a sticky dough like this one requires some muscle in a mixer. If you truly think you want to buy a mixer, I'd recommend you consider a refurbished KitchenAid directly from KitchenAid.


KitchenAid outlet:

https://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/mor...rbished-2/outlet-and-refurbished-3/102020231/


About factory refurbished KitchenAids


https://www.kitchenaid.com/customer-service/additional-information/


When I scale your recipe, I'll give you directions on how to mix and knead the dough by both machine and hand. Given the high hydration rate you probably wouldn't actually be kneading it in the traditional way. I'll test it to see how sticky it is. I think a stretch and fold might be the best way to handle it by hand.


Regarding cooking fails: cooking and baking take practice. I've been baking nearly 20 years and I still have fails despite more than just a basic understanding of baking science. Baking usually takes several tries and adjustments to get just right. There are so many factors that come into play. The brand of flour, the type of sugar, the humidity or lack thereof, the calibration of your oven, the material your bakeware is made. Recipes are guides. Like with your grandmother's pickles, it took several tries to get it the way you wanted them.

I always say failure is the best teacher. Failure always makes me sit down and review everything I did to get a better understanding of how to reach success. Another thing I do when I'm still working the kinks out of the recipe is keep notes while I bake. I detail everything I do as I go through the process. Knowing what I did helps me figure out what to do next time.

 

[Jean S.]

Now I am not sure I should invest in a mixer at all. Lots to think about.

I will probably just use regular bread tins/glass. I do have 2 glass ones, 1 is my grandmothers (my mom gave it to me and told me this, it has a bluish tint to it). Or is tin the way to go? But a regular looking bread is ok since I'll never know the actual pan they used.

This is very complex so I am glad to have found this place and you. You are the first ever that understood the actual recipe, and how to break it down!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Now I am not sure I should invest in a mixer at all. Lots to think about.

I will probably just use regular bread tins/glass. I do have 2 glass ones, 1 is my grandmothers (my mom gave it to me and told me this, it has a bluish tint to it). Or is tin the way to go? But a regular looking bread is ok since I'll never know the actual pan they used.

This is very complex so I am glad to have found this place and you. You are the first ever that understood the actual recipe, and how to break it down!

I think a 7" round cake pan fitted with a collar made from parchment paper will work. I'm curious about this recipe given it's not like your standard chalka. I'm going to test it when I scale it and create the mixing method. So when I bake it I'm going to use the round cake pan with a collar. I'll let you know how it works.

They sell disposable panettone molds. While I've not used the panettone molds, I've used similar paper molds for other baked goods. You do the final rise in them, then pop the entire dough and mold in the oven.


http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop...MIo7OpvY_W1gIVxVx-Ch080Ac8EAQYBSABEgKnQPD_BwE

 

[Jean S.]

I think a 7" round cake pan fitted with a collar made from parchment paper will work. I'm curious about this recipe given it's not like your standard chalka. I'm going to test it when I scale it and create the mixing method. So when I bake it I'm going to use the round cake pan with a collar. I'll let you know how it works.

They sell disposable panettone molds. While I've not used the panettone molds, I've used similar paper molds for other baked goods. You do the final rise in them, then pop the entire dough and mold in the oven.


http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop...MIo7OpvY_W1gIVxVx-Ch080Ac8EAQYBSABEgKnQPD_BwE

 

[Jean S.]

Those are pretty neat, never knew that existed. Wonder if they make tin can size ones? Then again my dough for the tin can bread is not like regular dough and it may be too soupy for those. Nice idea though for gift giving.

We never got an entire loaf of this raisin bread. We always got 1/2 of a loaf/round. Grandma had 5 alive children, Aunt Jenny died relatively young, 20 something. Uncle Stan lived at home all his life, so maybe she got 3 rounds of this bread to share with the rest of us. I heard the rest went as Bingo prizes, lol.

When you do bake this, I'd like to see how you make a parchment collar.

 

[Apocalypso]

All very interesting stuff here, friends! NorCalBaker does definitely know her stuff. As for the pan, I was wondering whether it was like, or whether you could use a Bundt pan? I'm a bit familiar with Polish babka baked in a Bundt pan, and here is a pic of that on the King Arthur Flour web site, though the recipe isn't the same. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/polish-babka-recipe

There are some beautiful fluted Bundt type pans, Nordic ware or other.

I remember the pashka from my mom's (Slovak) side.

 

[Jean S.]

All very interesting stuff here, friends! NorCalBaker does definitely know her stuff. As for the pan, I was wondering whether it was like, or whether you could use a Bundt pan? I'm a bit familiar with Polish babka baked in a Bundt pan, and here is a pic of that on the King Arthur Flour web site, though the recipe isn't the same. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/polish-babka-recipe

There are some beautiful fluted Bundt type pans, Nordic ware or other.

I remember the pashka from my mom's (Slovak) side.

 

[Jean S.]

Hi, yes I may finally be able to make grandma's bread correctly with her help.

No a bundt cake mold is not the right one. No hole in the middle and the scallops were just on the bottom sides of the bread and rose up to a mushroom type top. A bundt mold would not allow all the rising, nor did the scallops go on the bottom.

She is a busy woman and feel really lucky to have found this place and her with grandma's true recipe.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Hi, yes I may finally be able to make grandma's bread correctly with her help.

No a bundt cake mold is not the right one. No hole in the middle and the scallops were just on the bottom sides of the bread and rose up to a mushroom type top. A bundt mold would not allow all the rising, nor did the scallops go on the bottom.

She is a busy woman and feel really lucky to have found this place and her with grandma's true recipe.

I scaled the recipe on paper. So this weekend I'm going to test it. It's really interesting. The "2 gallons of water + 2 cans Pet Milk " and the small ratio of yeast indicates a very slow rise. The hydration came in at a whopping 67%. An average paska or chalka has about 45% hydration. So high hydration, slow rise indicates a poolish. Puls the water is mixed with the pet milk. That's a very interesting combination right there. I'll explain that when I post the scaled recipe and method.

I really think somebody in your grandmother's group was a professional baker.

 

[Jean S.]

I scaled the recipe on paper. So this weekend I'm going to test it. It's really interesting. The "2 gallons of water + 2 cans Pet Milk " and the small ratio of yeast indicates a very slow rise. The hydration came in at a whopping 67%. An average paska or chalka has about 45% hydration. So high hydration, slow rise indicates a poolish. Puls the water is mixed with the pet milk. That's a very interesting combination right there. I'll explain that when I post the scaled recipe and method.

I really think somebody in your grandmother's group was a professional baker.

 

[Jean S.]

I am so excited to hear from you, and also very intimated by what I read over on the Sour Dough thread that you wrote on. I am sure you can make this bread not so sure I can! I don't have all the tools, that blade, stone, scale, talent, the patience, science like mind, etc...

I will call that bakery tomorrow, the one 3 houses away from grandma's house. And see if I can find out if 50 + yrs. ago their relative was part of the congregation and Polish. I read a review about this bakery and they have been in existence for 104 years! So there has to be a strong Polish connection! One of the reviews even mentions that they still use coal to bake. My grandfather had something to do with coal/railroads for a bit as boilermaker, then got into construction of houses. So this is truly a heritage recipe from the old country. That in and of itself is very touching and I am so glad I passed it on to you. Oh and the entire web/world for that matter! Oops. But I did talk to that bakery about a month ago, and even though the gal said they made this Paska bread she did not state they had large air holes in their bread...hmmm? I truly can imagine my mom calling or walking over to the bakery to get the full recipe and she wrote it on Stan's (her brother, my uncle) on his notepad paper in her mom's house.

I'll let you know what they say about their family and the neighborhood.

Thanks ever so much, this is better than doing a genealogy on my Polish side of the family.

Oh I have grandma's hump back trunk she used (according to my mother) when grandma came over. Don't know what age she did, how she ended up with grandpa or that area either. But you found more than just a recipe, you found a history!

I scanned the original paper that my mother wrote, and am happy to send it to you via email, not sure how we can do that, or if you want to see it, but I'd be happy to share it with you.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I am so excited to hear from you, and also very intimated by what I read over on the Sour Dough thread that you wrote on. I am sure you can make this bread not so sure I can! I don't have all the tools, that blade, stone, scale, talent, the patience, science like mind, etc...

I will call that bakery tomorrow, the one 3 houses away from grandma's house. And see if I can find out if 50 + yrs. ago their relative was part of the congregation and Polish. I read a review about this bakery and they have been in existence for 104 years! So there has to be a strong Polish connection! One of the reviews even mentions that they still use coal to bake. My grandfather had something to do with coal/railroads for a bit as boilermaker, then got into construction of houses. So this is truly a heritage recipe from the old country. That in and of itself is very touching and I am so glad I passed it on to you. Oh and the entire web/world for that matter! Oops. But I did talk to that bakery about a month ago, and even though the gal said they made this Paska bread she did not state they had large air holes in their bread...hmmm? I truly can imagine my mom calling or walking over to the bakery to get the full recipe and she wrote it on Stan's (her brother, my uncle) on his notepad paper in her mom's house.

I'll let you know what they say about their family and the neighborhood.

Thanks ever so much, this is better than doing a genealogy on my Polish side of the family.

Oh I have grandma's hump back trunk she used (according to my mother) when grandma came over. Don't know what age she did, how she ended up with grandpa or that area either. But you found more than just a recipe, you found a history!

I scanned the original paper that my mother wrote, and am happy to send it to you via email, not sure how we can do that, or if you want to see it, but I'd be happy to share it with you.

Bread is always challenging, but I'll use a method suited to your skill level. And I'll take into consideration the limits available on tools. So it will be a hodgepodge of mixing methods. But the idea is to use the exact ratio of ingredients your grandmother used. Even if you can't recreate the exacts crumb, you will at least be eating bread that is scaled to the ratios she used.

I think the holes in your grandmother's paska is unique to her. Paska is an enriched dough, meaning it contains fats (butter and milk) and it has sugar. Fats and sugar are tenderizers, so they make a dough soft. So enriched doughs produce a tight crumb.

Creating that open crumb in a bread is very difficult. It requires a strong dough, a preferment (poolish) and high hydration. Your grandmother's recipe is unique in the hydration level. That's why I think she used a poolish. A sponge, which is a mix of flour, liquid, and yeast, only rests for 30 - 90 mins. A sponge could never create a big open crumb. Most recipes don't even bother with a sponge. Which is a shame. A sponge will at least enhance the flavor. But people are in such a rush these days. No one has patience. And the first ingredient for good bread is patience.

BTW, poolish breads came out of Vienna. But food historians believe Polish bakers in Vienna created the technique.

I was a history major, so food history is an area of interest for me

 

[Jean S.]

Bread is always challenging, but I'll use a method suited to your skill level. And I'll take into consideration the limits available on tools. So it will be a hodgepodge of mixing methods. But the idea is to use the exact ratio of ingredients your grandmother used. Even if you can't recreate the exacts crumb, you will at least be eating bread that is scaled to the ratios she used.

I think the holes in your grandmother's paska is unique to her. Paska is an enriched dough, meaning it contains fats (butter and milk) and it has sugar. Fats and sugar are tenderizers, so they make a dough soft. So enriched doughs produce a tight crumb.

Creating that open crumb in a bread is very difficult. It requires a strong dough, a preferment (poolish) and high hydration. Your grandmother's recipe is unique in the hydration level. That's why I think she used a poolish. A sponge, which is a mix of flour, liquid, and yeast, only rests for 30 - 90 mins. A sponge could never create a big open crumb. Most recipes don't even bother with a sponge. Which is a shame. A sponge will at least enhance the flavor. But people are in such a rush these days. No one has patience. And the first ingredient for good bread is patience.

BTW, poolish breads came out of Vienna. But food historians believe Polish bakers in Vienna created the technique.

I was a history major, so food history is an area of interest for me

 

[Jean S.]

I really want those air holes. I've made the dense bread and it really affects my taste memory. If they could at least be like what I saw that Sour Dough look like , the one you posted on, I could live with that.
I hope you will post pictures of the inside of the bread when you make it. Good Luck and Thank You!!

 

[Jean S.]

I called the bakery and have to wait until Wed. for the granddaughter to be there. Now this granddaughter would the great granddaughter of the age group/time frame I am talking about.

Are you not using the poolish? I sure hope you do, if not let me know how to do it. While the bread may be sweet, it is the memory of the airiness of the bread that really is what I am searching for. I can not emphasize that more. You think it is the flavor, but imagine that flavor of the recipe and the airiness of a slice of it, toasted with butter melting through the holes...........that is my memory and what I am searching for and want.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I called the bakery and have to wait until Wed. for the granddaughter to be there. Now this granddaughter would the great granddaughter of the age group/time frame I am talking about.

Are you not using the poolish? I sure hope you do, if not let me know how to do it. While the bread may be sweet, it is the memory of the airiness of the bread that really is what I am searching for. I can not emphasize that more. You think it is the flavor, but imagine that flavor of the recipe and the airiness of a slice of it, toasted with butter melting through the holes...........that is my memory and what I am searching for and want.

I'm going to try both sponge and a poolish. i'm pretty certain the sponge will not produce those holes. The two major factors in really big open crumb are high hydration and strong gluten development. Your grandmothers recipe has high gluten development I believe through use of a commercial mixer to knead, and a poolish made with water that was fortified with evaporated milk.

That water +2 cans pet milk is very telling. I feel certain they leashed the power of the concentrated protein in the evaporated milk to aid gluten development. There really is no other reasonable explanation for the evaporated milk; mixing it with the water; and the small ratio of evaporated milk to flour. Also, given the amount of whole milk already included, on the face of it, evaporated milk makes no sense from a flavor perspective. Evaporated milk only makes sense in context with gluten development. And if those holes were really as big as you remember, and those loaves as tall as you remember there has to be an extraordinary amount of gluten development in that dough. The use of the pet milk for gluten development is what really leads me to believe someone in that group was a trained baker. I'll explain all about milk enzymes, yeast and the evaporated milk when I post the scaled portions and the mixing method.

 

[Jean S.]

I'm going to try both sponge and a poolish. i'm pretty certain the sponge will not produce those holes. The two major factors in really big open crumb are high hydration and strong gluten development. Your grandmothers recipe has high gluten development I believe through use of a commercial mixer to knead, and a poolish made with water that was fortified with evaporated milk.

That water +2 cans pet milk is very telling. I feel certain they leashed the power of the concentrated protein in the evaporated milk to aid gluten development. There really is no other reasonable explanation for the evaporated milk; mixing it with the water; and the small ratio of evaporated milk to flour. Also, given the amount of whole milk already included, on the face of it, evaporated milk makes no sense from a flavor perspective. Evaporated milk only makes sense in context with gluten development. And if those holes were really as big as you remember, and those loaves as tall as you remember there has to be an extraordinary amount of gluten development in that dough. The use of the pet milk for gluten development is what really leads me to believe someone in that group was a trained baker. I'll explain all about milk enzymes, yeast and the evaporated milk when I post the scaled portions and the mixing method.

 

[Jean S.]

It sounds like what I suspected. That her use of a mixer albeit a commercial one is the reason for these air holes (and everything else you have talked about). That is why I wanted a mixer, now granted it won't have the power of a commercial one, but it also won't be 50 lbs. of flour either. So if I used a mixer would I use it for 2 kneadings or ???? I can't see, but don't know, those lovely Polish women kneading 38 loaves of bread, 2 times. But they were used to hard work, the olden days. And granted when I hand kneaded it before I probably didn't do it correctly. I did use my mothers recipe for 6 loaves (a few times) but it doesn't have the pet milk in it, used dry yeast, so her recipe could have come from anywhere, not grandma's recipe. And if she tried to make this bread, we never saw it or ate it. So it may have turned out like mine did, way too dense. The "sweetness" was there but it is not as good, at all, when it is that dense. And all the pictures on the web of this bread also show a big denseness. Not worth the effort, time, etc if it comes out dense. It is not grandma's bread.

I do find it odd that the bakery back there by grandma's house also makes this bread but I was told it didn't have these air holes that I talk about. Now they have to have a commercial mixer, one would think?

I know you won't use your mixer to knead, and I respect that. I bought the Oster one due to the price, it has the same power as Kitchen Aid ones sold at the stores, not the super ones you spoke about. If I burn it up, oh well....but I may get the bread I want at least one time? One can hope.....

Are you using dry yeast or cake? I doubt highly that the stores here carry the cake, though I will call them (2). The only bakeries here are pastry/cookie ones, but I can call them to see what kind of mixer they use and even the yeast. I don't think or know if the grocery stores use commercial mixers, but I don't think they would let me use them either. Small town, no great food anywhere.

I remember that it was difficult to cut an even slice of the bread, sometimes it was too thin on the bottom and would burn a bit in the toaster. Didn't matter to me, but that "clue" may help you. Mom cut the bread into slices, not I.

I appreciate you trying. Fingers crossed .....

 

[Norcalbaker59]

It sounds like what I suspected. That her use of a mixer albeit a commercial one is the reason for these air holes (and everything else you have talked about). That is why I wanted a mixer, now granted it won't have the power of a commercial one, but it also won't be 50 lbs. of flour either. So if I used a mixer would I use it for 2 kneadings or ???? I can't see, but don't know, those lovely Polish women kneading 38 loaves of bread, 2 times. But they were used to hard work, the olden days. And granted when I hand kneaded it before I probably didn't do it correctly. I did use my mothers recipe for 6 loaves (a few times) but it doesn't have the pet milk in it, used dry yeast, so her recipe could have come from anywhere, not grandma's recipe. And if she tried to make this bread, we never saw it or ate it. So it may have turned out like mine did, way too dense. The "sweetness" was there but it is not as good, at all, when it is that dense. And all the pictures on the web of this bread also show a big denseness. Not worth the effort, time, etc if it comes out dense. It is not grandma's bread.

I do find it odd that the bakery back there by grandma's house also makes this bread but I was told it didn't have these air holes that I talk about. Now they have to have a commercial mixer, one would think?

I know you won't use your mixer to knead, and I respect that. I bought the Oster one due to the price, it has the same power as Kitchen Aid ones sold at the stores, not the super ones you spoke about. If I burn it up, oh well....but I may get the bread I want at least one time? One can hope.....

Are you using dry yeast or cake? I doubt highly that the stores here carry the cake, though I will call them (2). The only bakeries here are pastry/cookie ones, but I can call them to see what kind of mixer they use and even the yeast. I don't think or know if the grocery stores use commercial mixers, but I don't think they would let me use them either. Small town, no great food anywhere.

I remember that it was difficult to cut an even slice of the bread, sometimes it was too thin on the bottom and would burn a bit in the toaster. Didn't matter to me, but that "clue" may help you. Mom cut the bread into slices, not I.

I appreciate you trying. Fingers crossed .....

It's not odd that the bakery's paska doesn't have holes because paska is NOT suppose to have holes. Your grandmother's bread is not a traditional paska.

Paska is a low hydration enriched dough. It's suppose to have a tight crumb. It's the ingredients and the ratio of ingredients that make holes impossible.

Your grandmother's recipe is not a traditional paska. It has the same ingredients, but the ratios are completely different.

The holes are not about the mixer. It's about the ratio of flour and dehydration that make the dough very heavy and sticky. So a mixer is used because the dough is so difficult to work with.

You'll see when you try to make it.

I'm going to use dry yeast. The percentage of yeast is only 1%. That indicates your grandmother used dry yeast. If she had used fresh cake yeast, it should be 2% - 3% yeast because cake yeast is weaker. So you have to use a higher percentage of cake yeast.

I know she didn't use instant yeast because it wasn't invented yet. But I'm going to try both active dry yeast and instant.

A hand mixer won't knead this dough. Dough is kneaded once to develop the gluten. This type of bread then goes through a bulk rise, then shaped, and proofed (2nd rise) and baked.I have a couple of ideas of how the dough can made so it will not require a lot of kneading.


Be patient. Let me try the recipe to see what I can do to make it by hand.