Issues with dough kneading

[briochenewbaker]

Hi everyone! Looking for some guidance with my brioche dough. I was planning on making cinnamon buns tomorrow with this dough for reference. I have read baking textbooks, read the entire King Arthur website LOL, watched 100 YouTube videos... you name it, I've researched it! I can NEVER get my doughs to form into smooth looking balls. I know windowpane is something that professional bakers do but I've tried it to help me gauge and my dough just tears every time. And by everytime, I mean like 200 times. I track my DDT throughout the process as well. I know I'm working with a "wet" dough but this is after 15 minutes after incorporating the butter. I've tried to knead for up to 30 minutes thinking okay let me see if I'm just undermixing, but I get the same outcome. Any advice is so welcomed I've also watched all the videos on how to properly knead dough as well....

 

[retired baker]

it looks like you made a dry dough.
If mixing by machine it requires mixing to the point that the mixer is in danger of overheating, it takes a lot of mixing to develop. Brioche is the only dough I've seen overheat a 60 quart commercial hobart mixer.

 

[briochenewbaker]

I didn't consider dry because it's such a sticky mess! I'll give this a try, thanks!

 

[briochenewbaker]

Room temp ingredients with that long of a mix will throw off my DDT.

 

[retired baker]

your way isn't working.

 

[briochenewbaker]

I've tried all the different ways, that's why I can also speak to the above recipe. Thanks for your input. I am going to keep trying

 

[retired baker]

OK, in the video she is doing a straight mix and proof, thats why she is using room temp ingredients along with a ferment starter, to kick start the yeast.

usually brioche is retarded overnite. Thats the way I like to do it, the chilled dough is easy to handle, like smooth putty. If you don't have a machine its quite a chore to get it developed, I've never done it without mixer.

 

[briochenewbaker]

I do use a machine and cold proof overnight. I almost think the cold proofing could be part of my text issue, even though it makes for a more flavorful dough. I'm also using Saf Gold yeast which I read was the best option since my sugar is around 10%

 

[Norcalbaker59]

A sticky dough is usually caused by one or more of the following .

Incorrect Baker’s percentages: too much liquid for the protein content of the flour.

Too low flour protein: lowered the protein content in the flour the less water it’s able to absorb, resulting in a sticky dough.

Adding butter too soon: Fat inhibits, gluten development. That should not be added until there is close to medium gluten development. Low gluten development windowpane test will have fully opaque center. Medium gluten development will have areas of opaque mixed with then transparent areas in the center. Full gluten development will be thin and transparent.

Butter temperature too high: butter is pliable at 68°F – 72°F. Since a mixing and kneading causes friction, and friction causes heat, you do not want the butter at the high end of the temperature range.

Adding flour during kneading: flour should not be added during kneading of any dough. The dry flour forms clumps and makes tears in the dough, exposing the sticky inside; changes the bakers percentages; changes the distribution of hydrated flour in the dough.

Mixing method: planetary mixers are not ideal for mixing dough. It might help to hand knead using fraisage method to get a better feel for gluten development and dough handling.

Kneading technique: A dough may have proper gluten development, but still look rough and feel sticky because it was handled improperly. See video below for demonstration of this.

 

[retired baker]

I do use a machine and cold proof overnight. I almost think the cold proofing could be part of my text issue, even though it makes for a more flavorful dough. I'm also using Saf Gold yeast which I read was the best option since my sugar is around 10%

its just too dry.

 

[Steelman]

t sounds like you’re really thorough with your brioche dough! Since brioche is a rich, wet dough, try using the slap-and-fold kneading technique to develop gluten. Make sure to incorporate the butter gradually and give the dough enough time to rest and rise properly. If the dough is tearing, it might be too wet, so try adding a bit more flour, but be careful not to overdo it. Using a stand mixer can also help if you’re not already using one. Good luck with your cinnamon buns!

 

[Mona]

Hi! It sounds like you’ve done a lot of research, but don’t get discouraged. Try slightly reducing the hydration of your dough or adding a bit more flour to help with the consistency. Ensure the butter is soft but not melted, and consider using the “stretch and fold” technique instead of traditional kneading. Allowing the dough to rest between kneading can also be helpful. If you’re kneading by hand, using a stand mixer with a dough hook can make things easier. Lastly, using high-quality bread flour might improve the dough’s texture. Hope this helps, and good luck with your cinnamon buns!