Dough Hydration and Tangzhong: Tips for Donut Making

[donutscientistwannabe]

Hi all, I've been lurking on this forum since last night and stoked to ask some question.

While there are a lot of questions in my mind right now, maybe I'll start with this one..

I've been making donut with tangzhong and autolyse method with 75% hydration as followed by this recipe I'm using

Tangzhong
flour to milk 1:5
25g bread flour
125ml milk

Donut Recipe
475g bread flour
325ml scalded milk 36C - egg weight (I took 25ml on reserve for blooming yeast)
75g softened butter
50g castor / powdered sugar
5g instant dry yeast
5g salt
1 whole egg (50g)

Maybe I can start with these questions below
1. Is this recipe a correct 75% dough hydration?
2. How do you weigh egg exactly? What I learnt is (egg weight x 74%) then total liquid in your recipe minus the weight from the egg.
3. Is tangzhong necessary even if I coldproof my dough? Reason is it's more convenient for me if I'm ready to sell my donuts online, and also it develops flavor overnight
4. Also can someone explain me like I'm five about high temperature processed milk powder? is it a must ingredient for donuts?
Thank you!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

1. You can’t sell a doughnut online. A doughnut has a shelf life of about 3 - 4 hr. because the dough is fried.

2. Why are you doing tangzhong and 75% hydration? Tangzhong is cooking flour. Cooking flour to create a mass of starch gelatinization. And did you not notice that when you cook this mass, you added FIVE TIMES the water to flour? Pre-starch gelatinization is used in commercial bread baking in Asia because a loaf an enriched bread, which they prefer, can then made with less significantly less butter, about 30 g of butter for a loaf. Baked bread will dry out in a couple of days. But with the pre-starch gelatinization, bread will stay soft longer.

3. I don’t know why you’re using such high hydration for a doughnut.

4. Milk is pasteurized. Enzymes that would interfere with yeast development are killed in pasteurization. it is not necessary to scald milk.

5. Instant dry yeast is designed to mix into dry ingredients. it is not necessary to bloom instant dry yeast. In fact, Active dry yeast does not need to be “bloomed”. Bloom dry yeast only if you suspect it is dead and you want to check it.

6. Instant dry yeast is the wrong yeast to use in a dough that will be fermented overnight. That particular strain of yeast is very robust with a short life cycle. This yeast reproduces is very quickly to allow the baker to bake a dough within hours.

If the dough was left overnight, too much yeast develops; it plows through its food source, then dies off. When the yeast is dead, it can’t give a good rise. So I can’t imagine you have a decent product to sell.

I’m not going to answer any more questions about doughnuts because I have written a significant amount on doughnuts. And there’s really not much more I can write on the subject.

• Thread on over proofing
• https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/donuts-not-uniform-other-issues.6719/

• Thread on DDT
• https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/tears-in-dough.6068/#post-41931

• Thread on oil absorption
• https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/little-bit-oily-donut.6245/#post-42891

• Thread discussing shrinking after cutting
• https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/my-donut-become-smaller-after-cut.6201/#post-42659

• Troubleshooting guide
• https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/doughnut-troubleshooting-guide.6529/

 

[donutscientistwannabe]

Hi there! I'm humbled to have your reply! and thank you for that! I hope we can continue discussing this as maybe the conversation will develop overtime? But of course, if you don't mind answering me

1. Actually I'm sending fresh donuts out on the same day and only takes 1 to 2 hours to get my donuts to customers

2. The reason why I'm doing tangzhong is because I live in a really hot country (32c ~ 36c) and I have to make a product that more or less have a good shelf of life; more resistance from the environment so I guess why not tangzhong? also the reason why 75% hydration is because of this website. KingArthur is like deadsetting on 75% hydration as they proved it why we should be fixated on 75% hydration.

3. to answer it, because the recipe told us to do so. I have no baking skills nor experience, so yeah I'm just like other dumb citizen of the internet who just blindly follow any recipe. That's why I was correct to seek advice from you. What's the ideal hydration for donuts in general?

4. Glad to hear this directly from the professional baker! I've been under a lot of confusion between pasteurized milk and UHT milk (ultra high temperature) because a milk is scalded in 82C while pasteurized milk only processed in 60C ish, but it's all clear now!

5. If that's the case, how do you incorporate instant dry yeast if I have an autolyse method? I tried several times with no luck, because if I put dry yeast directly after 30 min autolyse without blooming the yeast, in the end after done mixing, my dough won't be that smooth to see and to feel, it's like my dough have pimples and tiny bristles. That's why the only way to remove them is to bloom my yeast with milk. What's your opinion on this?

6. That's why in your replies that I read on other thread, you sajd that bakers use salt to inhibit the growth of the yeast? I found that 5g of salt is doing fine for me, when I proof my dough for around 12 hours in fridge, my dough expansion is considered normal? two - three times expansion from normal size. I know you mentioned a lot about instant dry yeast is bad for overnight proof, is there a way we can work this out? Also what's your opinion about overnight proof develops more flavor? Is it feasible with instant dry yeast?

7. Uhm this is a new question, but after first proof, is it okay to divide the dough into two blocks for easier rolling? After I divide it, should I give it a 15 mins rest?

Lastly, I've read all your stickys about donuts like DDT, overproofing donuts, troubleshooting guide. I might as well reread them today and I apologize for this wall of text, I owe you big time and can't thank more than enough! You provided a lot of tips beyond measure!

ps: please by all means, roast me if I'm wrong! Imma total newbie here and may got lost with my own research. cheers xx

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I have not responded to your private messages because I have never interacted with you on this forum. Those who I interact with through the private conversation channel are those who I have interacted with on open forum. It is with rare exception that I interact with anyone privately without previous interaction.

My participation here is a courtesy. I am also a friend of the administrator.

I understand you are eager to seek information from me for your business endeavor. But you need to understand this isn’t the way to go about business success.

I answered the questions that were specific to your recipe, that were not addressed in other questions. And I linked the threads for other discussions on doughnuts. Other than say you are using bread techniques that do not apply to doughnuts, I don’t know what else I can add. Doughnuts are not bread; and such are damaging to the dough.

 

[donutscientistwannabe]

then, my most sincere apology for the inconvenience I have caused, and thank you for your insights, I learned a lot

 

[Norcalbaker59]

then, my most sincere apology for the inconvenience I have caused, and thank you for your insights, I learned a lot

This is what I don’t understand people ask for information. And when you are forthright they take offense. What I’m giving you is common sense business information. And you should listen to what I’m saying.

You privately message me without having any previous interaction with me. Despite that, I responded to your post on the forum. But you sent a second private message. So I came back her to explain as politely as possible that it is ill advised to launch a business based solely on google searches.

You need some professionally or work in the industry. You have no understanding of why you were doing any of the things are doing. You’re just blindly going through the motions of mixing. and several of the things you’re doing or completely unnecessary like scalding the milk and “blooming” the yeast. The steps take time. Time is labor. Time each one of these steps. then multiply it by the number of batches per week. Did the number of batches per month. Then the number of batches per year. And look how much money you’re losing in wasted labor.

When people give you really good free business and baking advice don’t insult them. Now go take some business and baking classes.