Lemon Bars v Lemon Meringue pie?

[Lee_C]

Heh yep, I've just looked at my world clock app on my phone and it says LA is 8 hours behind, so, enjoy your breakfast! It's more like evening dinner time here.

NCB, I'm at a store and have just bought the largest lemons they have called Eureka lemons.

It worked out cheaper buying individual ones than a multipack of four, and they're much bigger. I wanted to make sure I get 160g of juice from them and these four lemons weigh just under 700g, so should be no problem.

However, I think they're probably waxed because the store only advertised the smaller multipack lemons as unwaxed. I'm wondering how to remove the wax and how important it is before zesting? There seems to be different ideas of how to dewax. Some say boil and scrub them, or just pour boiling kettle water over and scrub them, or soak in water with vinegar. And then I'm wondering how I would know if the wax has come off.

I'd have preferred Meyers or Amalfis but don't know where to get them locally. I typed in Eureka lemons into google and it says "Meyer lemons produce orange-yellow fruit that is thinner-skinned than Eureka lemons. Eureka lemon trees produce oblong, juicy fruit that has a medium-gold color, and while the skin is thicker than Meyer lemons, it is softer. Meyer lemons tend to be sweeter and less acidic than Eureka."

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Heh yep, I've just looked at my world clock app on my phone and it says LA is 8 hours behind, so, enjoy your breakfast! It's more like evening dinner time here.

NCB, I'm at a store and have just bought the largest lemons they have called Eureka lemons.


View attachment 2451


It worked out cheaper buying individual ones than a multipack of four, and they're much bigger. I wanted to make sure I get 160g of juice from them and these four lemons weigh just under 700g, so should be no problem.

However, I think they're probably waxed because the store only advertised the smaller multipack lemons as unwaxed. I'm wondering how to remove the wax and how important it is before zesting? There seems to be different ideas of how to dewax. Some say boil and scrub them, or just pour boiling kettle water over and scrub them, or soak in water with vinegar. And then I'm wondering how I would know if the wax has come off.

I'd have preferred Meyers or Amalfis but don't know where to get them locally. I typed in Eureka lemons into google and it says "Meyer lemons produce orange-yellow fruit that is thinner-skinned than Eureka lemons. Eureka lemon trees produce oblong, juicy fruit that has a medium-gold color, and while the skin is thicker than Meyer lemons, it is softer. Meyer lemons tend to be sweeter and less acidic than Eureka."

Yes those lemons look waxed. Usually organic lemons are unwax, or at least the ones they sell here. After you scrub them they’ll look dull. That’s indication the wax is off. Do not scrub too hard because you don’t want to damage the zest. You want the oil in the zest.

But the boiling water technique should remove the wax. It’s important that you use a designated vegetable brush, not a brush used for cleaning dishes. You don’t want to embed any kind of bacteria into the fruit. If you don’t have a vegetable brush, just run the fruit under cold water and gently rub with your hands.

Oh I always purchase my lemons individually. I’m very picky. I’ll pick up every lemon in the produce stand. The produce man hates me because I wreak his display looking for heaviest fruit, The heavier the fruit, the more juice it contains.

A medium size lemon that weighs about 5 oz (140g) whole will have about 45g - 50g of juice. So at 700g the lemons should have plenty enough juice.

Meyers lemons are out of season right now. The season is end of October to March. I don’t know the season for Amalfi lemons since we cannot get them here

The Meyers lemon has a very unique skin; it is a hybrid of mandarin orange and a lemon so it has a thin skin like a mandarin orange. But the thin rind also makes it more fragile, so the fruit cannot be shipped long distance. So they don’t ship them out of the county. They are the darlings of the farmer’s market and local produce. I know they are available in the UK. So they must be cultivated somewhere in the Mediterranean. The Meyers is native to China, so I’m sure it was brought down the Silk Road long before it made its way to America.

It’s a lot smaller than a Eureka lemon, but it produces an incredible amount of juice. It’s also more orange.

Nearly all the Meyers lemons trees in California were destroyed by a virus in the 60’s. Fortunately they discovered one stock that was disease-free, and from that inventory they saved the Meyers lemon industry in California.

Not my photos, but these are photos of the difference between a Eureka and a Meyers

 

[Lee_C]

Ah yeah, I can really see the difference in size and flesh colour of those Meyer lemons, much more orangey.
Oh no, you're out of season for the Meyers. What might you use instead until October?

Lol, wrecking the produce man's display. It has to be done though.
But thank goodness the Meyers didn't go extinct in California!


Well, I just poured boiling water over my lemons to try and melt the wax and then ran them under cold water while scrubbing with my hands as I don't have a brush that hasn't been used for dishes or anything else non food. I need to buy a vegetable brush. Then I dried them but they still look shiny, so I don't think the wax has gone.

So now I've filled a bowl with cold water and added 3 tablespoons of white vinegar and put the lemons in. I'm leaving them for 30 minutes then will rinse and hand scrub again. Apparently vinegar can break down the wax. If I don't see any difference, I'll just go ahead and zest it. I'm sure they must be a bit better than before I did anything to them.

I've made my shortcrust base. It's cooled down in the tin ready for the curd. I used a similar crust recipe but this time used one from joy of baking.

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Ah yeah, I can really see the difference in size and flesh colour of those Meyer lemons, much more orangey.
Oh no, you're out of season for the Meyers. What might you use instead until October?

Lol, wrecking the produce man's display. It has to be done though.
But thank goodness the Meyers didn't go extinct in California!


Well, I just poured boiling water over my lemons to try and melt the wax and then ran them under cold water while scrubbing with my hands as I don't have a brush that hasn't been used for dishes or anything else non food. I need to buy a vegetable brush. Then I dried them but they still look shiny, so I don't think the wax has gone.

So now I've filled a bowl with cold water and added 3 tablespoons of white vinegar and put the lemons in. I'm leaving them for 30 minutes then will rinse and hand scrub again. Apparently vinegar can break down the wax. If I don't see any difference, I'll just go ahead and zest it. I'm sure they must be a bit better than before I did anything to them.

I've made my shortcrust base. It's cooled down in the tin ready for the curd. I used a similar crust recipe but this time used one from joy of baking.

Wax coating is pretty thin, so after the vinegar soak I really wouldn’t worry about it and would just zest.

The property I live on has eight or so Meyers lemons trees. So I juice and freeze quite a but juice. But if I run out, I use the eureka lemons, but I mix it with ruby red grapefruit juice sweeten it some. Combination of the lemon and grapefruit juice is really quite lovely.

Halep won at Wimbledon, totally dominated Williams 6-2 6-2. So it wasn’t even close for Serena.

 

[Lee_C]

Wax coating is pretty thin, so after the vinegar soak I really wouldn’t worry about it and would just zest.

The property I live on has eight or so Meyers lemons trees. So I juice and freeze quite a but juice. But if I run out, I use the eureka lemons, but I mix it with ruby red grapefruit juice sweeten it some. Combination of the lemon and grapefruit juice is really quite lovely.

Halep won at Wimbledon, totally dominated Williams 6-2 6-2. So it wasn’t even close for Serena.

Yep, Serena got obliterated, I was amazed! Halep is not only a great player, but she is the most eloquent and graceful speaker I've ever seen after winning Wimbledon. What a lovely woman and worthy champion. Serena was also more graceful in defeat than I expected her to be, given her diva outburst at the US Open.

Must be great to just pick those Meyer Lemons off trees at your home. I hope the Eurekas don't make my curd too sour, but hopefully the sugar will do enough to make it right. I've zested 3 of the lemons now. And I squeezed 3 and a half lemons which gave me 165g juice, so with the remaining half would have given me about 188g. So buying 4 large lemons was exactly right. I can't go any further tonight as I'm past the point of using my food processor, I wish it wasn't so loud. I don't know if I can emulsify with the butter by hand instead?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Yep, Serena got obliterated, I was amazed! Halep is not only a great player, but she is the most eloquent and graceful speaker I've ever seen after winning Wimbledon. What a lovely woman and worthy champion. Serena was also more graceful in defeat than I expected her to be, given her diva outburst at the US Open.

Must be great to just pick those Meyer Lemons off trees at your home. I hope the Eurekas don't make my curd too sour, but hopefully the sugar will do enough to make it right. I've zested 3 of the lemons now. And I squeezed 3 and a half lemons which gave me 165g juice, so with the remaining half would have given me about 188g. So buying 4 large lemons was exactly right. I can't go any further tonight as I'm past the point of using my food processor, I wish it wasn't so loud. I don't know if I can emulsify with the butter by hand instead?

Sorry for the late relay. My nephew is visiting, so we had a dinner at his dad’s house last night.

The butter is best added using a food processor or immersion blender. The amount of butter and density of the butter make it impossible to do by hand.

I think most people, including Pierre Herme, use the eureka lemons to make this curd, so this should be find with straight eureka lemons. After making it you can decide if you want to adjust the sugar if you make it in the future.



What happened at the U.S. Open was not diva behavior. That was an athlete with integrity sticking up for herself after being wrongly accused of receiving coaching from the sideline. That was a woman athlete standing up for herself because of blatant sexism, and sexism specifically directed towards Serena Williams over the years. Serena called the ump a “thief”. Ultimately it lead to a penalty of a loss of a full game. To quote Andy Roddick following that incident, “I’ve regrettably said worse and I’ve never gotten a game penalty.”

For perspective on the blatant sexism women face in sports, week one of the U.S. Open male tennis player Nick Kyrgios, had the ump leave his chair, walk over to Kyrgios on the sidelines and give him a pep talk. Kyrgios stated, “He said he liked me, I’m not sure if that encouragement.”

It takes a lot of courage for any woman in the moment to stand up for herself because when she does she gets dismissed as a diva or worse.

 

[Lee_C]

I hope you had a nice dinner NCB with your nephew and brother.

Sorry about calling Serena a diva! I didn't realise the umpire had made a wrong call on her. Clearly then she was correct to react like that.

I've been out all day playing music and have kept the radio off ever since as I want to watch the Federer final on catchup tv, so don't tell me who won.

Yay, I made the curd tonight! It's chilling in the fridge now for 2 hours and has about 40 minutes to go. It seems to have come out well NCB! But I had such trouble getting the curd to 82c. I was stirring almost continuously for an hour and it just wasn't going above 72c! I had it simmering just below boiling and even a rolling boil. Maybe it was the large bowl in a small saucepan that was wrong. But I'd put a few inches of water in. Eventually I put the bowl in my larger saucepan which kind of drops into the saucepan too far so I could only have about an inch or so of water in there. Even at a rolling boil in either saucepan it wasn't increasing in temperature, I was scratching my head as to why. It seemed to increase in temperature more when I wasn't stirring, or maybe I'm imagining that. Eventually it did reach 82c (I think it might have hit 83c) at which point I took it off the heat.

Once it was off the heat, I strained it and then folded it for 30 seconds. It cooled quicker than I expected and was about 50c when I put my thermapen in.


As far as butter temperature of 20 to 21c, I kind of got it there but by the time I was ready to add it to the food processor, some of it had melted to liquid so I put the liquid butter in the freezer for 5 minutes. It was all probably slightly softer than it should have been, probably around 24/25c when I added it and I added slightly more than a tablespoon at a time, but kept to 15 second intervals. And then I continued emulsifying for exactly 2 minutes more. I think I did it right as I didn't see anything separating in the emulsification.

So overall, I didn't really get temperatures as exact as they should have been, but I think I got the curd temperature about right so that it should set properly. I baked it for 6 minutes and it came out nice and shiny with a slight jiggle when shaking the tin.

Anyway, the taste of the curd is amazing! Smooth, very creamy, very lemony and sweet, no tartness at all. Once it's fully chilled, I intend to make some meringue to pipe over the bars and I've got a flame torch which hopefully should make it look similar to the picture of the ones you posted on the previous page.

By the way, there wasn't enough pastry dough in the recipe I used to bring it up the sides which was unfortunate. I did try and stretch it up the sides but it was very thin and has shrunk back after baking, so, no edge crust, but it's fine.

Here's some photos and I'll update once I've got sliced lemon bars with meringue topping.
I love the way it went from a pale matte yellow to a more deep and glossy yellow after baking. Plus the baking smoothed out the surface better than I was able to do with my palate knife and spatula.




After baking it

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I hope you had a nice dinner NCB with your nephew and brother.

Sorry about calling Serena a diva! I didn't realise the umpire had made a wrong call on her. Clearly then she was correct to react like that.

I've been out all day playing music and have kept the radio off ever since as I want to watch the Federer final on catchup tv, so don't tell me who won.

Yay, I made the curd tonight! It's chilling in the fridge now for 2 hours and has about 40 minutes to go. It seems to have come out well NCB! But I had such trouble getting the curd to 82c. I was stirring almost continuously for an hour and it just wasn't going above 72c! I had it simmering just below boiling and even a rolling boil. Maybe it was the large bowl in a small saucepan that was wrong. But I'd put a few inches of water in. Eventually I put the bowl in my larger saucepan which kind of drops into the saucepan too far so I could only have about an inch or so of water in there. Even at a rolling boil in either saucepan it wasn't increasing in temperature, I was scratching my head as to why. It seemed to increase in temperature more when I wasn't stirring, or maybe I'm imagining that. Eventually it did reach 82c (I think it might have hit 83c) at which point I took it off the heat.

Once it was off the heat, I strained it and then folded it for 30 seconds. It cooled quicker than I expected and was about 50c when I put my thermapen in.


As far as butter temperature of 20 to 21c, I kind of got it there but by the time I was ready to add it to the food processor, some of it had melted to liquid so I put the liquid butter in the freezer for 5 minutes. It was all probably slightly softer than it should have been, probably around 24/25c when I added it and I added slightly more than a tablespoon at a time, but kept to 15 second intervals. And then I continued emulsifying for exactly 2 minutes more. I think I did it right as I didn't see anything separating in the emulsification.

So overall, I didn't really get temperatures as exact as they should have been, but I think I got the curd temperature about right so that it should set properly. I baked it for 6 minutes and it came out nice and shiny with a slight jiggle when shaking the tin.

Anyway, the taste of the curd is amazing! Smooth, very creamy, very lemony and sweet, no tartness at all. Once it's fully chilled, I intend to make some meringue to pipe over the bars and I've got a flame torch which hopefully should make it look similar to the picture of the ones you posted on the previous page.

By the way, there wasn't enough pastry dough in the recipe I used to bring it up the sides which was unfortunate. I did try and stretch it up the sides but it was very thin and has shrunk back after baking, so, no edge crust, but it's fine.

Here's some photos and I'll update once I've got sliced lemon bars with meringue topping.
I love the way it went from a pale matte yellow to a more deep and glossy yellow after baking. Plus the baking smoothed out the surface better than I was able to do with my palate knife and spatula.

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After baking it

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Ohhhh you are very patient! lol! Yes, the saucepan was too small for the bowl. You need to get the bowl down into the saucepan more. It should take about 15 - 20 minutes at most to to reach the correct temperature.

You do want to keep the butter from melting. Your curd should still set up fine because the egg mixture was cooked to temperature. But if too much melted butter is used it will give the curd a greasy texture.

A meringue is an excellent topping for this curd. Now meringue does not hold up for long, that's the only down side. But I loooooove meringue on this curd. I am so glad you love flavor. Most everyone who tries this Pierre Herme version becomes a convert. When I make it for a tart, I must make extra for me. I will get up in the middle of the night and eat some. By morning there will not be enough to fill my tart shell if I do not make that extra

Once you make the recipe a couple of times you will figure out the amounts you will need for tin. Every thing looks good

Dinner with my nephew was good. He was in military. Then after he was discharged he was hired by a military contractor and sent to Afghanistan. He just returned in May as the company he was working for has completed the contract there. So he's looking for work again. He lives on the east coast and is just here for a few days. I'm taking him to lunch on Tuesday.

No worries about Serena. She gets a lot of negative press just because she is Serena. There's no upset on my part.

 

[Lee_C]

Lol yeah, I was patient, but it was a bit stressful as I was getting frustrated at it not increasing in temperature. I might have to buy bowls that fit better over my small and large saucepan. Large bowls I have for my small saucepan don't go far enough down. Or if I use a smaller bowl, it goes down too far, leaving not clearance for water to avoid touching the bowl. And with my larger saucepan, all my bowls go too far down. I didn't have any problem melting chocolate with a large bowl over a small saucepan, but obviously it doesn't work for the curd.


As usual NCB, I have a couple of questions.

I'm choosing a meringue to make between italian and swiss, and it seems italian is the best one for decorating as it holds up and doesn't weep. Italian meringue requires heating the sugar syrup to 118c and adding it to the egg whites while they're being whipped. Whereas the swiss meringue requires constant stirring/beating over a bain marie and heating the whites up to 71c before being whipped, as apparently 71c is the temperature that kills any possible salmonella, which is important as it's not being baked.
My question is, does the italian meringue method of adding the 118c sugar syrup to the whites also kill off any possible salmonella?

Regarding the lemon curd I made. It's delicious no doubt and since cooling in the fridge after baking, has set nicely and has become a paler yellow, exactly like the photo you posted of the curd you made with your Meyer lemons. I've sliced them up into 16 pieces each approximately 2 inch square. I've eaten just one and it tastes great and the pastry base is nice.

But I'm a bit confused. When I think of lemon curd, it's usually kind of gelatinous and slightly translucent. The curd I've made is to me more like a rich lemon cream/custard and isn't translucent. I imagine that is because of the amount of butter in it. I was sort of expecting it to come out looking more like what you see on a lemon meringue pie or the lemon bars I see all over youtube. Would this be the curd you would use for a lemon meringue pie?

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Lol yeah, I was patient, but it was a bit stressful as I was getting frustrated at it not increasing in temperature. I might have to buy bowls that fit better over my small and large saucepan. Large bowls I have for my small saucepan don't go far enough down. Or if I use a smaller bowl, it goes down too far, leaving not clearance for water to avoid touching the bowl. And with my larger saucepan, all my bowls go too far down. I didn't have any problem melting chocolate with a large bowl over a small saucepan, but obviously it doesn't work for the curd.


As usual NCB, I have a couple of questions.

I'm choosing a meringue to make between italian and swiss, and it seems italian is the best one for decorating as it holds up and doesn't weep. Italian meringue requires heating the sugar syrup to 118c and adding it to the egg whites while they're being whipped. Whereas the swiss meringue requires constant stirring/beating over a bain marie and heating the whites up to 71c before being whipped, as apparently 71c is the temperature that kills any possible salmonella, which is important as it's not being baked.
My question is, does the italian meringue method of adding the 118c sugar syrup to the whites also kill off any possible salmonella?

Regarding the lemon curd I made. It's delicious no doubt and since cooling in the fridge after baking, has set nicely and has become a paler yellow, exactly like the photo you posted of the curd you made with your Meyer lemons. I've sliced them up into 16 pieces each approximately 2 inch square. I've eaten just one and it tastes great and the pastry base is nice.

But I'm a bit confused. When I think of lemon curd, it's usually kind of gelatinous and slightly translucent. The curd I've made is to me more like a rich lemon cream/custard and isn't translucent. I imagine that is because of the amount of butter in it. I was sort of expecting it to come out looking more like what you see on a lemon meringue pie or the lemon bars I see all over youtube. Would this be the curd you would use for a lemon meringue pie?

• The safest meringue to make is the Swiss meringue. Fortunately you live in the UK, and not the US. The UK has a much better safety program record on egg production to safeguard against salmonella. Do you have a larger saucepan in which you can fit your stand mixer bowl over? I put my egg whites into my stand mixer bowl, then place it over the saucepan. Then gently and slowly stir the egg whites and sugar. As long as the eggs are moving they are fine. In fact I’ve even stopped stirring here and there. Stella Parks has a good stable Swiss meringue (link below). You could probably cut that recipe in half. And use plain sugar Instead of toasted sugar.

• With a traditional curd the butter is cooked into the lemon juice at the beginning. But butter is an emulsion, so when it’s cooked at high heat, the butterfat and water separates. There’s no way to re-emulsify it. That’s why the curd appears bright and translucent—it’s actually oily. And that greasy curd is an appetizing to a lot of people. And it also causes a problem when you use it in a crust because the crust absorbs the grease. But if you add the butter after you cook the egg and sugar base, the butter emulsion doesn’t break. So you get a really creamy curd. Now some people argue it’s no longer curd. But it’s all the same ingredients, same ratios. The only difference is the butter is added later in the process. It thickens up just the same but with a different texture. It’s creamier. The color is lighter. And the flavor is far superior.

• The filling in lemon bars is not a curd. It is a gelatinous mixture made of eggs, egg yolks, flour, and sugar. It’s not a traditional custard since they are not made with flour. The lemon bar was invented in the 1960s by the R&D kitchen for the Betty Crocker cookbook company, which is owned by General Mills. The use of the flour was designed to sell more Gold Medal flour. That’s the only reason it contains so much flour. But the flour gives the lemon filling an off taste and it creates a gooey texture similar to that sweet-and-sour pork at cheap Chinese takeout counters. Americans are not known as great pastry chefs and the lemon bar is a reflection of American pastry at its worst. Some people are nostalgic about lemon bars, I get that. I’m nostalgic about some foods too. But even as a kid I hated lemon bars. But then I hated sweet-and-sour pork too because of that gelatinous texture.

• Lemon meringue pie dates back to the 19th century. The traditional filling does not contain any type of flour or starch. But given that the meringue weeps and it’s difficult to get the filling to set, bakers have taken to adding cornstarch to both the meringue and the filling. Lemon meringue pie is more often than not gelatinous slabs of goo sitting in puddles of water the leaked from the meringue. It’s beyond unappetizing.

• The photograph I included above is how this lemon curd is served in fine patisseries as a lemon meringue pie. I don’t make the traditional America lemon bar or lemon meringue pie. I use this curd/cream. As you can tell I am not fond of that gooey gelatinous flour/cornstarch lemon filling.

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/easy-swiss-meringue-recipe.html

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Thought some photos of beating egg whites might be helpful.

I beat the egg whites for about 45 seconds before I add cream of tartar. They’re white and foamy

Soft Peak? NO! How do you pull the beater out of the bowl can distort the shape of the egg whites. These are actually Firm Peaks. Look how egg has been pulled away from the beaters sideways and yet it still holds its shape. If these were soft peaks they would have begun to sag down the beater.

Also Firm Peaks

Stiff Peaks

 

[Lee_C]

Thanks so much for NCB, that clears up my confusion. Good point about my stand mixer bowl, I'll see how that fits, it might work the best!

Right, Swiss meringue is the safest. And yes absolutely true, the UK has a good safety program against salmonella. I've just found this

https://www.cakeflix.com/questions/is-egg-white-inside-italian-meringue-safe-to-eat​

where someone responds that the Italian meringue method of heating the sugar to 116/118c is actually sufficient to kill bacteria. I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, but it's just that in my research, the Italian meringue has been recommended over swiss for the purpose I need of decorating my bars, and so it would seem to be safe enough.

Oh by the way, I was just thinking, once I've made my meringue and piped it onto my lemon bars and torched it, how do I store the bars? I can't put any clingfilm over or it would squish the meringue. I could put them in the fridge uncovered maybe. Or I suppose they'd be better of in a large plastic container/s with a lid, deep enough not to touch the top of the lemon bars.

Oh thanks for mentioning cream of tartar, yes, I don't have any so I'm going out today to buy this
tub of it. https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/cooks-ingredients-cream-of-tartar/420061-59102-59103

As far as lemon meringue filling, I guess that's where we differ, I like the very yellow gelatinous goo!
Like this.



But don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the curd I've made from the recipe you instructed me on, and will be making it a few times more for lemon bars and lemon tarts. But I want to make a lemon meringue pie at some point and will probably go for the gooey gelatinous filling for that.

 

[Lee_C]

Changed my mind, I'm currently making Swiss Meringue

 

[Lee_C]

Wow wow wow, I take back everything I said NCB, this curd is amazing and perfect for lemon meringue pie and everything lemony!

I'm just uploading my photos and will edit this post in a few minutes.

Here we go...

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Wow wow wow, I take back everything I said NCB, this curd is amazing and perfect for lemon meringue pie and everything lemony!

I'm just uploading my photos and will edit this post in a few minutes.

Here we go...

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Sorry for the delay in response. I was gone all day yesterday. It was my nephews last day in town. So we were at my sister’s all day until he had to leave for the airport at 10 pm last night.

Oh the lemon bars really turned out great! The torch really chars the meringue nicely. I think the batch amounts works well for that size tin.

For storage, a deep plastic container with a lid works best.

Italian meringue isn’t considered the safest because the hot sugar syrup is poured into the egg whites. So the egg whites are not actually directly heated and held above 140°F (60°C). Where is with Swiss meringue The egg whites are heated directly and held above 140°F (60°C). My directly heating the egg whites ensures the salmonella is killed.

I’m glad you like the curd. I find it to be delicious, and it works for so many applications, that it’s the only one I use.

 

[Lee_C]

I hope you had a nice last day with your nephew, NCB. Will it be long before you next see him?

I ended up putting the rest of the bars into a rectangular metal brownie tray which is big enough to hold them all and just deep enough to cover with clingfilm and mostly not touch the meringue. They're back in the fridge. The lemon bars were made and first refridgerated about 1.30am Tuesday morning and it's now 8pm Wednesday night, so I'm hoping they'll last until Friday or Saturday. Though I don't know how much longer or shorter the meringue will last than the curd.

I'm so grateful to you for putting me onto this recipe with such intense detail and explanations. It's not so much about it being difficult to make (compared to making puff pastry!) but more about paying attention to detail and being meticulous with each step of which there are many. An enjoyable process and I got to properly use my Thermapen.

I loved the charring bit, that was fun! It takes only a couple of seconds to char each one and is easy to over torch them. I had bought this torch/lighter from a place called Fasttech a few years ago for the purpose of heating coil wires for vaping, and it worked perfectly for the meringue. https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...st-503-pen-style-butane-jet-torch-and-lighter


I decided on a mix of a few coated in powdered sugar, a few with meringue just dolloped on in a vague square shape and the rest piped on in swirls. The only star nozzle I have is a Wilton 1M which is the one I used. I've used it for cupcakes but I would like to get a different one to create the swirls more like in the photo you posted.

The taste of these bars is sublime. The pastry is better than the one I made before. It's got a lovely crumbly texture, buttery and sweet, and has a bit of salt added which brings out the flavour better. I got that from Joy of baking. The swiss meringue is sweet and I added a little vanilla extract. The lemon curd is outstanding, It was only once I'd completed the bars with the meringue that I really appreciated how good the curd is. And yes, the batch amount was exactly right, not too little and none wasted either!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

I hope you had a nice last day with your nephew, NCB. Will it be long before you next see him?

I ended up putting the rest of the bars into a rectangular metal brownie tray which is big enough to hold them all and just deep enough to cover with clingfilm and mostly not touch the meringue. They're back in the fridge. The lemon bars were made and first refridgerated about 1.30am Tuesday morning and it's now 8pm Wednesday night, so I'm hoping they'll last until Friday or Saturday. Though I don't know how much longer or shorter the meringue will last than the curd.

I'm so grateful to you for putting me onto this recipe with such intense detail and explanations. It's not so much about it being difficult to make (compared to making puff pastry!) but more about paying attention to detail and being meticulous with each step of which there are many. An enjoyable process and I got to properly use my Thermapen.

I loved the charring bit, that was fun! It takes only a couple of seconds to char each one and is easy to over torch them. I had bought this torch/lighter from a place called Fasttech a few years ago for the purpose of heating coil wires for vaping, and it worked perfectly for the meringue. https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...st-503-pen-style-butane-jet-torch-and-lighter


I decided on a mix of a few coated in powdered sugar, a few with meringue just dolloped on in a vague square shape and the rest piped on in swirls. The only star nozzle I have is a Wilton 1M which is the one I used. I've used it for cupcakes but I would like to get a different one to create the swirls more like in the photo you posted.

The taste of these bars is sublime. The pastry is better than the one I made before. It's got a lovely crumbly texture, buttery and sweet, and has a bit of salt added which brings out the flavour better. I got that from Joy of baking. The swiss meringue is sweet and I added a little vanilla extract. The lemon curd is outstanding, It was only once I'd completed the bars with the meringue that I really appreciated how good the curd is. And yes, the batch amount was exactly right, not too little and none wasted either!

Meringue is meringue, but when it’s charred, je ne sais quoi. There is nothing quiet like it.

“Sublime”..,, Ahhh, so I see you too have come to appreciate the utter brilliance of Pierre Herme After eating this it’s really hard to eat gooey flour and cornstarch based fillings. Not that I can eat flour anyway.

Meringue usually holds up for a couple of days and then it starts to breakdown.

You’re right that these recipes are not complicated, it’s just a matter of detail. Once you make them a few times, you’ll feel more relaxed, and those details won’t seem like a big deal.

The type of piping nozzle used For the meringue in the photo is a large open star. Not sure of the size or brand as she makes no mention of piping nozzles in the equipment section of her book. Most pastry chef’s here Ateco brand.


Next week I’ll post the recipe for the pastry cream and the fruit tart that I promised.

To get the look of the meringue in the photo you would want an open star tip with a lot of “teeth” like the one on the left.

Do not use a closed star tip where the teeth curve inward

Never use your finger to wash an open or closed star tip—ever!!! It’s extremely dangerous as the points of teeth can get embedded into your skin. Buy a brush.

 

[Lee_C]

Oh you're so right, charring it makes it look special and more professional. I took a couple of squares to my mum today. She loves it! The only small critique she had was that if it was for a lemon meringue pie that the curd should be a bit lighter, but that's only because she's used to the standard gelatinous curd we discussed earlier, rather than the creamier slightly denser Pierre Herme curd. But for now I'm sticking with Pierre Herme, it's lush and sublime.

Thanks for the nozzle advice. I did have a plastic open star tip but I had cut it down to make a large hole, so I'll buy a metal open star tip. And yep, they're sharp!

What would it have looked like if I had used a closed star tip with teeth curved in?

Looking forward to your pastry cream and fruit tart recipes. I was thinking that I could use my new and so far unused mini tart shells to make lemon tarts as well, using the same Pierre Herme curd, that should work well.


As far as ingredient cost for the 16 lemon bars I made, I worked out that it totalled about £5 or just over $6 for the lemons, butter and eggs used. I don't really worry to much about the cost of sugar and flour.

Hmm, I guess it's neither particularly cheap nor particularly expensive, especially given the quality of the final product.
Of course, when you can pick Meyer lemons from your garden, it's even better!

 

[Norcalbaker59]

Oh you're so right, charring it makes it look special and more professional. I took a couple of squares to my mum today. She loves it! The only small critique she had was that if it was for a lemon meringue pie that the curd should be a bit lighter, but that's only because she's used to the standard gelatinous curd we discussed earlier, rather than the creamier slightly denser Pierre Herme curd. But for now I'm sticking with Pierre Herme, it's lush and sublime.

Thanks for the nozzle advice. I did have a plastic open star tip but I had cut it down to make a large hole, so I'll buy a metal open star tip. And yep, they're sharp!

What would it have looked like if I had used a closed star tip with teeth curved in?

Looking forward to your pastry cream and fruit tart recipes. I was thinking that I could use my new and so far unused mini tart shells to make lemon tarts as well, using the same Pierre Herme curd, that should work well.


As far as ingredient cost for the 16 lemon bars I made, I worked out that it totalled about £5 or just over $6 for the lemons, butter and eggs used. I don't really worry to much about the cost of sugar and flour.

Hmm, I guess it's neither particularly cheap nor particularly expensive, especially given the quality of the final product.
Of course, when you can pick Meyer lemons from your garden, it's even better!

Ok, if your mother gave it the seal of approval we know it's a winner because she calls it like it is. And it doesn't matter if its a Pierre Herme recipe or not, if it's crap, she'll say so.

I have a lot of photos locked forever in my old phone that I can't get to. This link shows a pick of what that closed star nozzle produces. It's not a great photo because the post was about filling pastry bags and not piping nozzles. But the work I photographed from that project is locked in my old phone with a thousand of photos

Yes the teeth on the metal nozzles are very sharp. That is why I warned you about cleaning them with a brush. The natural inclination is to wash them with you hands. I did that years ago and got my finger caught in nozzle. Fortunately I have a lot of tools. I had to use needle-nose pliers to remove the nozzle from my finger.

https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/dual-color-piping-bags.119/#post-34640

 

[Lee_C]

Ok, if your mother gave it the seal of approval we know it's a winner because she calls it like it is. And it doesn't matter if its a Pierre Herme recipe or not, if it's crap, she'll say so.

I have a lot of photos locked forever in my old phone that I can't get to. This link shows a pick of what that closed star nozzle produces. It's not a great photo because the post was about filling pastry bags and not piping nozzles. But the work I photographed from that project is locked in my old phone with a thousand of photos

Yes the teeth on the metal nozzles are very sharp. That is why I warned you about cleaning them with a brush. The natural inclination is to wash them with you hands. I did that years ago and got my finger caught in nozzle. Fortunately I have a lot of tools. I had to use needle-nose pliers to remove the nozzle from my finger.

https://www.baking-forums.com/threads/dual-color-piping-bags.119/#post-34640

Hehe, well, my mum is no expert on baking. But it's certainly nice when she likes what I bake and I would have been very surprised if she didn't like the recipe you gave me!

Ouch, getting your finger caught with the nozzle! That couldn't have been nice at all. So yes, I better try to avoid that.

What a pity you can't access your photos. Did you lose the password or is the phone not turning on?

I've looked at the thread you linked and can see the effect the nozzle makes. And your pink and white dual coloured piping looks amazing and beautifully swirled! I've got some red and yellow food colouring so I'm going to try that for cupcakes and miniature baked meringues. I'll try it by painting stripes inside the piping bag.